Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Catch22
Shopping tokens aren't harder to come by. You can get 10 shopping tokens for 20 bonus tokens. That would take you 7 days of training on light. Currently if you did 7 days of training with +1 shopping token you would get 7 shopping tokens.

AEQ store will work the same. You can just upgrade what you do in the store if you want to pay bonus tokens to do so.

We changed the conversion to 3:1.

oh wait....second question

when we sell AEQ after the changes do we get the actual BTs invested for the upgrade or do we get the converted BTs?

Originally posted by tragula
Thanks.

So basically the following logic is fail ?
Train strength and blocking : I need to unlock 1 attribute so let's make it blocking = 5BT
Train Blocking with Speed : Blocking is already unlocked so I can do that for free
Train Blocking, Speed, Kicking : Blocking is already unlocked so I need to unlock another attribute (say speed ) =10 BT



Nope that's good logic.

Originally posted by Catch22
Nope that's good logic.

Thanks.

A balance question:

Multiple training two attributes each time is more or less equal to the current intense training (with a small BT cost for every other attribute). You gain 2 new BTs for each old one. However the conversion rate is 3 to 1 (using the AEQ upgrades measure).

If I understand the new training gains of intense match the old ones on normal which mean that the above is true in this aspect too.

So in terms of AEQ a user in the new system has only 2/3 of the BTs he had in the old system. Ie 2-3 AEQs per player in now 1-2 AEQ. Unless you are willing to lower the training effectiveness drastically.

Is this by design ?

So, basically what I am getting from this in regards to training, we have to train each attribute at least 5 times by itself before we can then unlock a specific attribute, for 5 bonus tokens, then said unlocked attribute could be trained also as a secondary attribute. However, to truly open all the attributes as primary and secondary attributes would cost us 5 tokens for each attribute or 14x5=60 tokens. Then to unlock any single attribute as a potential 3rd simultaneous trained attribute we would have to basically repeat that process all over again but at a higher token cost per attribute? Continue this process, if we choose to, up to some or all attributes opened to the point of being able to train 5 attributes at the same time? Basically an exponential cost of bonus tokens. Yes, I understand that when training each subsequent attribute it adds a return of an additional bonus token, but isn't this self defeating? Why not just let players use the current basis for training, except have 2 drop windows where they can pick the primary attribute and the secondary attribute of their choice? I mean, it would not be hard to put in a check to see if they have picked the same attribute in both windows and reject the combination if chosen.

Originally posted by ljsefton
So, basically what I am getting from this in regards to training, we have to train each attribute at least 5 times by itself before we can then unlock a specific attribute, for 5 bonus tokens, then said unlocked attribute could be trained also as a secondary attribute. However, to truly open all the attributes as primary and secondary attributes would cost us 5 tokens for each attribute or 14x5=60 tokens. Then to unlock any single attribute as a potential 3rd simultaneous trained attribute we would have to basically repeat that process all over again but at a higher token cost per attribute? Continue this process, if we choose to, up to some or all attributes opened to the point of being able to train 5 attributes at the same time? Basically an exponential cost of bonus tokens. Yes, I understand that when training each subsequent attribute it adds a return of an additional bonus token, but isn't this self defeating? Why not just let players use the current basis for training, except have 2 drop windows where they can pick the primary attribute and the secondary attribute of their choice? I mean, it would not be hard to put in a check to see if they have picked the same attribute in both windows and reject the combination if chosen.

No, that went away. You need to read the revised changes.

Originally posted by tragula
A balance question:

Multiple training two attributes each time is more or less equal to the current intense training (with a small BT cost for every other attribute). You gain 2 new BTs for each old one. However the conversion rate is 3 to 1 (using the AEQ upgrades measure).

If I understand the new training gains of intense match the old ones on normal which mean that the above is true in this aspect too.

So in terms of AEQ a user in the new system has only 2/3 of the BTs he had in the old system. Ie 2-3 AEQs per player in now 1-2 AEQ. Unless you are willing to lower the training effectiveness drastically.

Is this by design ?

Not really if you think about it.

Currently it takes you 2.5 days to intense train two attributes and get 1 bonus token.
In the new system it takes you 2 days to intense train two attributes and get 2 bonus tokens.

Over 10 days, current system = 4 bonus tokens, new system = 10 bonus tokens, so conversion rate is 2.5 bonus tokens.

However, if you do 3 attributes it would take you three days to intense train two attributes and get 4 bonus tokens.

Over 15 days, current system = 6 bonus tokens, new system with 3 attribs = 24 bonus tokens, so conversion rate is 4 bonus tokens.

We're basically making it a bit of an incentive to train 3. Small penalty to train 2.

You are right of course about the 2.5 and not 2.

I am cool with the change. 3 Attributes is not the same as 2 together (beside the small extra BT cost) it make the current cap building system work differently, but not a big difference (naively it looks like stronger builds in the new system).
Without working the numbers I guess one will not be able to justify 3rd AEQ builds (they already marginal in current situations, and calls for lucky rolls in the shop).
The 3 attributes together is a little bit slow in my mind, but that is just me. And of course maybe working on one attribute will be the new trick if you can combine different training levels to both get enough BT and still push that attribute fast enough.

* heading to bed *, it is hard to consetrate when my wife yelling at me to go to sleep *

Thanks

still unsure how i feel about all this but

massive improvement....at least in clarity

(sad thing is it still isn't all that clear)

So will the current training chains still be there for free?

ex. the strength / blocking chain will not cost any BT's to unlock?

Originally posted by CobraKaji
So will the current training chains still be there for free?

ex. the strength / blocking chain will not cost any BT's to unlock?

While listnening to GLB radio, someone came up with that question.
If I remember right, I think all the current chains will be gone. You will have to unlock one of them (Strength or Blocking) to train them at the same time.

Originally posted by billthekill
While listnening to GLB radio, someone came up with that question.
If I remember right, I think all the current chains will be gone. You will have to unlock one of them (Strength or Blocking) to train them at the same time.


If true, that sucks a big one.

Ok, with the intent to train multiple attributes at one time, we always have the ability to train the first attribute regardless of which one it is for free, but to train 2 attributes simultaneously we have to pay 5 bonus tokens to unlock it. Based on that, do we only unlock that one particular attribute for the 5 bonus token cost, or, does spending that 5 bonus tokens open the ability to train any attribute as a secondary training attribute?

Example:

We Train Strength by itself without bonus token cost, if we want to add Blocking while training Strength we pay the 5 bonus tokens to open the second attribute slot, or the 5 bonus tokens only opens Blocking as the second attribute and to train say Speed with Strength we have to pay another 5 bonus tokens?

So, on the AE store, once you upgraded it, does it stay upgraded or do I have to do it each time I shop for equipment

I commend your efforts to make GLB better and think that many of the changes so far have improved the game. But I wonder if you have heard of the KISS rule? More complicated does not equal better. So I have 2 suggestions that could solve many of the problems without unduly complicating the game.

First, leave the training system exactly as it is but add the unlock mechanism for training any pair of attributes you want. A new player could select one attribute to unlock either when they are created or when they first train. A player created before the new rules take effect could also select one attribute to unlock after the change takes effect. Additional attributes could be unlocked for an increasing cost, so that a 2nd atty could be unlocked for 6 BT, a 3rd for 8 BT, etc. I don't see any crying need for training 3 attys or enhanced training, tbh, so the rest of the system could stay as it is.

Second, you are going through all sorts of contortions to get rid of cash, but cash is something everyone can relate to. If eq funds are being exploited, why can't you make it so players can only draw from a fund during the regular season? If necessary, you could also put a level dependent limit on how much could be drawn by any one player. So for example, a lvl 22 player would be limited to $300K (enough for lvl 24 upgrades + $100K if he finds a good piece of AEQ). This should go a long way towards solving the problem of eq fund abuse (which I'm not sure is such a major problem) because a team couldn't sign the player during the off season, give him a bunch of eq, and then release him to sign with another team.

I think these solutions are much simpler than what is being proposed and will be much easier for the average agent to understand. If you want to create this massive change to the training system, I'm sure I can pop the numbers into a spreadsheet and figure out the best way to use it eventually, but a lot of people will find it befuddling, make mistakes, and possibly rage/quit. My biggest question is do you want to make the game more accessible to new players or something only math whizzes can love?