Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Sonic
For shopping, Levels 41, 51, 61 etc, as you get an extra slot. You can shop before 41, but don't do too many as you might not end up with enough BT's/have to compromise your build.

BT's for building sounds too late in my opinion.

I know. Was taking about his 4 dots and their levels. But thanks. I've been a firm believer for years and years of shopping early (level 31 start) because I seem to get better choices earlier... but I'm currently running comparison dots and keeping track (notes) at shopping at each level (41, 51, 61, 71) to see if more actually IS better. I know it seems it should be but it really comes down to how Bort set things up.
If, A.) he made it so that there's a simple percentage every time you refresh then it really doesn't matter when you shop. It'll always be a % chance of ONE piece being such and such with every refresh.
However, if B.) he made it so there's an overall % chance per # of pieces, then shopping later should produce better chances because you get more pieces PER refresh, thereby scrolling through the %'s faster.
I highly suspect it's A and more pieces doesn't change %'s so the chance is always the same no matter how many pieces you get when you refresh. 10% is 10%... no matter if it's 4 pieces or 8 pieces. More pieces means more 'crap' pieces that are useless. I could well be wrong (for all these years) and maybe I find out different... but gotta do the work first to see.

I also shop early and have had good luck doing so.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I know. Was taking about his 4 dots and their levels. But thanks. I've been a firm believer for years and years of shopping early (level 31 start) because I seem to get better choices earlier... but I'm currently running comparison dots and keeping track (notes) at shopping at each level (41, 51, 61, 71) to see if more actually IS better. I know it seems it should be but it really comes down to how Bort set things up.
If, A.) he made it so that there's a simple percentage every time you refresh then it really doesn't matter when you shop. It'll always be a % chance of ONE piece being such and such with every refresh.
However, if B.) he made it so there's an overall % chance per # of pieces, then shopping later should produce better chances because you get more pieces PER refresh, thereby scrolling through the %'s faster.
I highly suspect it's A and more pieces doesn't change %'s so the chance is always the same no matter how many pieces you get when you refresh. 10% is 10%... no matter if it's 4 pieces or 8 pieces. More pieces means more 'crap' pieces that are useless. I could well be wrong (for all these years) and maybe I find out different... but gotta do the work first to see.

I look at the shopping as: if I can get pieces early and with few shopping rolls, I can plan my BT's and then know when to stop multi/normal/other training and start light training from this day of the build. The problem is when a build is tightly scheduled for the amount of skills you need and if you do shop a little too much, compromises to the build take place

Stats can't be wrong right?

I remember there was a player who went through 200+ BT's shopping at the end of a build and collated all of the shopping rolls together. Was interesting to see the numbers, but can't really remember what he got.

What kind of dot you're shopping for also determines a bit of the quality you get. Pulling this out of memory but O-Line and D-Line dots I've had the greatest success with getting top notch pieces quick and easy/early. Safeties and WR's would likely be next. LB's, DB's, and all backs... maybe TE's too I've done ok with. Passing QB's hit and miss. But RQB's, and sometimes the kicker and punter seem to get the crappiest 'refreshes' most often. I've had to simply build 2 or 3 pieces because what I want never does show up. For those 'hard to find' pieces, I actually start looking for +3 major skill pieces with no bonus's attached. Easier to attach the bonus I want to the +3 skill and I still save some BT's. (costs 50 BT's to build a +3 skill but only about 12 BT's to buy [I think].)

I had/have a great guide I've used for years now... but I'm working on a better version of it. It's a long guide (could be shortened with thought)... and it's missing some pieces I'd wished I'd added on originally. That's why I'm doing this bit of research to find out if late shopping is better than early. I don't think early is better (results-wise) but it sure makes planing out BT's easier if you know exactly what you spent shopping and how much time (training days) is left so you can plot when to switch out to Light instead of Multi.

It's 7 for a +3.

Being able to plan by level 41 for end of multi-training is how I like to try and have my dots move forward. This way you get more training gains which saves SPs.

Holy crap, I didn't expect this much input.


Thank you very much GLB fam

I agree, for planning purpose, I start at 31 and finish then or at 41, or else I'll just buy. If I'm ahead on BTs and it won't affect the build, I might try a few rolls at a higher level. I have always seen more junk. I would say my aeq to roll has been about 70% at L31, 25% at L41 and 5% bought. Some like SAs that are 18 or 38 BTs, probably won't roll for but may get it shopping anyways. The 75 BTs SAs I would probably use CEQ if I was putting equipment to it.
I also have tried at end of build if I have a few BTs left over. I haven't seen anything good in those limited rolls.

TLDR - L31 or bust

Originally posted by Qillar
I agree, for planning purpose, I start at 31 and finish then or at 41, or else I'll just buy. If I'm ahead on BTs and it won't affect the build, I might try a few rolls at a higher level. I have always seen more junk. I would say my aeq to roll has been about 70% at L31, 25% at L41 and 5% bought. Some like SAs that are 18 or 38 BTs, probably won't roll for but may get it shopping anyways. The 75 BTs SAs I would probably use CEQ if I was putting equipment to it.
I also have tried at end of build if I have a few BTs left over. I haven't seen anything good in those limited rolls.

TLDR - L31 or bust

Over the years I've gotten that same feeling that rolling at high levels doesn't yield proportionately. Seems to give more junk/filler and too often give you 2 good pieces on the same roll.

Originally posted by BigRatUno
Over the years I've gotten that same feeling that rolling at high levels doesn't yield proportionately. Seems to give more junk/filler and too often give you 2 good pieces on the same roll.

I usually just roll at level the 160 day off-season...if i get lucky shopping it's a 4 AEQ, if it's not going well I will just buy 3 peices and Multi longer as a 3 AEQ dot...

I'm solidly in the shop at 31/41 camp as well. Once you get to the higher tiers, sure you have a small chance of getting the "perfect" piece of +3/+5%, but it's slim. I seem to do much better getting +3/blank for 7, or blank/+5% for 19 early on, and it gives the better training planning long term.

I'm not one of the original coders but I think, if I've got this doped out right with all the posts made over decades of this game... I think that there's simply a static %, for the appearance of each level of AEQ, per refresh. I base that on not only observations made and notes taken, but also how GLB prices each piece shown; Example;

a +3 skill & 5% Bonus is the most expensive piece. This much I do know... I'll have all the #'s written down by the end of this batch of dots I'm working on. But I think the next most expensive is +3 & 3% Bonus. It works it's way down to the lowest cost which would likely be a +1 skill only piece but I cannot ever remember seeing one that low. Usually if I see a +1 skill, it's attached to something (SA or % bonus). +2 skill only is likely the lowest piece at 7 BT's (if I remember correctly).

So I suspect the % of appearance is FIRST calculated based off VALUE of piece... with the most costly pieces showing up the least... say 20% tops? PLUS, then what KIND of piece it is is calculated next. So you'll see a 27 BT +3 skill & 5% bonus... but WHICH skill and WHAT bonus would be the next calculation... which is why you can get a +3 blocking & 5% INT piece of AEQ for your Guard... which makes it a worthless piece to YOU... but not to the random calculator making up the pieces.

I believe this is how it works and the # of pieces per refresh (depending on the level of your dot... 31-71) doesn't matter. It'll just make more of the middle and lower pieces based off the %'s. What I DO NOT know yet is if having more pieces means, maybe, extra high quality/priced AEQ pieces when it DOES come up in the randomizer. That's what I'm trying to figure out now with these dot I'm building.

I will say this about shopping early. It makes it much easier to calculate the # of BT's you'll need once you have the pieces bought/built... and that's great for figuring out not only when to switch off of multi-training... but exactly what to do with the remaining training and SP's and level-ups from that point forward.

It's 7 BTS for a +3 AEQ if memory serves me!

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I'm not one of the original coders but I think, if I've got this doped out right with all the posts made over decades of this game... I think that there's simply a static %, for the appearance of each level of AEQ, per refresh. I base that on not only observations made and notes taken, but also how GLB prices each piece shown; Example;

a +3 skill & 5% Bonus is the most expensive piece. This much I do know... I'll have all the #'s written down by the end of this batch of dots I'm working on. But I think the next most expensive is +3 & 3% Bonus. It works it's way down to the lowest cost which would likely be a +1 skill only piece but I cannot ever remember seeing one that low. Usually if I see a +1 skill, it's attached to something (SA or % bonus). +2 skill only is likely the lowest piece at 7 BT's (if I remember correctly).

So I suspect the % of appearance is FIRST calculated based off VALUE of piece... with the most costly pieces showing up the least... say 20% tops? PLUS, then what KIND of piece it is is calculated next. So you'll see a 27 BT +3 skill & 5% bonus... but WHICH skill and WHAT bonus would be the next calculation... which is why you can get a +3 blocking & 5% INT piece of AEQ for your Guard... which makes it a worthless piece to YOU... but not to the random calculator making up the pieces.

I believe this is how it works and the # of pieces per refresh (depending on the level of your dot... 31-71) doesn't matter. It'll just make more of the middle and lower pieces based off the %'s. What I DO NOT know yet is if having more pieces means, maybe, extra high quality/priced AEQ pieces when it DOES come up in the randomizer. That's what I'm trying to figure out now with these dot I'm building.

I will say this about shopping early. It makes it much easier to calculate the # of BT's you'll need once you have the pieces bought/built... and that's great for figuring out not only when to switch off of multi-training... but exactly what to do with the remaining training and SP's and level-ups from that point forward.



As someone that fancies themselves a lazy-piece-of-garbage coder, I find it extremely unlikely that this is the case. It would be both easier and make more sense to roll each piece individually for its stats: I will assume until otherwise proven with actual chunks of the code or overwhelming statistical analysis, that it is done individually.

I have absolutely no experience with AEQ, as I've literally purchased it less than a handful of times, if at all.

But there is almost no way it is coded like you suspect Theo.

You could be right, SB. I just reckoned that since it's a one 'roll' shopping thing (spend 3 BT's to refresh the page) and they all appear at once that it's just a simple % of what appears. I mean there's some pretty crazy random shit that pops up as far as what each piece offers... but the overall COST of each piece tends to be about the same. You get so many cheap pieces... so many average cost... and occasionally an expensive piece. Where it crashes down is the stuff that makes each piece... like you get a 5% pass quality piece for a QB.... AWESOME... but it comes with a +3 blocking skill attached... Shit. The cost quality of the piece is high... but the randomness of what you get kills off a lot of them (the pieces of AEQ). I've learned to covet those pieces that have the 5% bonus or high SA I want... but no skill attached. Secondly loving those +3 skill pieces I want... but with no bonus attached. I save BT's and still get the piece I really want in the end.

How each piece is rolled could be pretty crazy, but its safe to say there is almost no chance that the roll of one is in any way related to the other.

From a purely mathematical perspective the "higher cost" equipment you are referring to already has 2 (or more?) attributes attached to it, and thus is exactly twice (or thrice?) as likely to have unfavorable attributes.

It is entirely possible that the roll for each individual piece favors being a less expensive piece, but in no way does this indicate it is any more likely that your initial conclusion has any merit.