Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PP


http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358216 (this just looks pretty)





damn bro...hit the TE!

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by PP

Test game, all zone, only now with the CBs also having ZS, 2nd attempt (thought that the zone test I ran was the last, but forgot about the pulling G, so 1st attempt was all pitches...not much to learn about zones from that )
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1653&mode=pbp

General thoughts
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358206 (I don't mind this...The CB has very good reaction time (probably too good), but the SS doesn't...Do wish the QB would have thrown sooner, but understand that it was 4th, also)

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358211 (reasonable reaction time --maybe too fast for the CB yet-- but QB should have thrown sooner to hit the soft spot)

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358213 (reasonable all the way around)

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358216 (this just looks pretty)

All in all, I think the CBs reaction in zone could be reduced a smidge more, but is about right. I also think that the QB needs to do a better job of throwing to the weak spots in zones, not throwing when the WR hits the weak spot. It's often too late then. I'd like to see a few more big plays. It's something that just doesn't happen much anymore in the passing game. I think the fake WRs could use 1 more bump (at the same lvl you bumped them each individual time in the off ssn), and that'd help a little. I also believe that these changes help provide that a little too ( http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1654&pbp_id=358233 there were 2 more, bt they were the result of me selecting a zone D that didn't cover the deep balls well at all...Because of that, should have been more, really).

Now, as DB and I agreed earlier, if those things happen, I believe you also need to make PDs and ints easier to balance it. IMO, all of those acts together would make the game more fun for both sides of the ball.





This sounds a lot like what I was looking for, great to hear. Hopefully, you'll get the problem with QBs fixed, I think allowing QBs to have some ability to look ahead and know where the hole will be or having the ability to let the OCs set progressions would help some. Although the look ahead ability if possible would have to be tested heavily because it could get overpowered.

These defenses are absolutely horrible, literally the Zone d works fine, if qb's were checking down to hb's like in years past, the passing game would be fine as it is right now. Once that is fixed, zones won't really need to be reworked IMO

Originally posted by David Stern
These defenses are absolutely horrible, literally the Zone d works fine, if qb's were checking down to hb's like in years past, the passing game would be fine as it is right now. Once that is fixed, zones won't really need to be reworked IMO

Yeah...the zones are just picked from the Pre-Designed Plays that Bort has available, but that's not what's being tested. What is are the D dots' reaction times, when playing zone and having both ZS & BH. Bort would like them to react "more human" instead of super human. He's also trying to get scrambling to work better (hence the scrambling QB set to scramble often in that test) and trying to get the QB to better hit the dead spots in zones. I can't see how any of those things could be considered anything but worthy goals.

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by bhall43

im a little concerned by the frequency of WR fumbles...seems like we are going from a shit ton of KL passes to a shit ton of fumbles...passing is already somewhat of a concern as it is...

4 fumbles by WR's in that game alone...its much more rare for WR's to fumble in real life than HB's...so im hoping that PP's recommendation to Bort fixes this...

completely agree...That's why I included that section saying this needs to be looked at/tweaked, even though that wasn't the test I was running.

What are the wr builds in those games?

I dont see the problem with an initial increase in frequency of WR fumbles, provided it is related to WR builds. There might/will be more turnovers to start off with but both teams will experience this and should even out against evenly matched teams (its effects both teams since most wrs are built very similarly).

Also, an increase in wr fumbles is good for the zone fix as now zones will be more beatable but at the same token there is more risk/reward... continue building speedsters to blowup the zone and risk more turnovers or build possessions wrs that can be defended by the zone (pds/ints) but do not cough it up.

I just would rather see the right fix be implemented and let us fix our builds over the next season or two than to half-ass the fix and then have to go back later and readjust it. That said, the key to making a big change like this is communication (Bort should make an announcement to let everyone know this is coming).

Lastly, I wouldnt say its "rare" for a WR to fumble in real life as it seems most of the big name wrs in the NFL average 1-2 fumbles per season (certainly not as many as HBs average but significantly more than the 1 fumble my season 1 WR has accumulated over 13 seasons despite having average at best carrying/strength/etc).

Originally posted by beenlurken


Lastly, I wouldnt say its "rare" for a WR to fumble in real life as it seems most of the big name wrs in the NFL average 1-2 fumbles per season (certainly not as many as HBs average but significantly more than the 1 fumble my season 1 WR has accumulated over 13 seasons despite having average at best carrying/strength/etc).

The most fumbles so far this season by a WR is 3 in the NFL...and only 17 WR's and 2 TE's have more than 1 fumble. Yes...its RARE.

Originally posted by beenlurken
What are the wr builds in those games?



Builds for WR's who fumbled:

Speedy WR -

Strength:
30
Speed:
116
Agility:
74
Jumping:
60
Stamina:
40
Vision:
60
Confidence:
50
Catching:
65
Carrying:
48

cut:10, first_step:10,

quick_feet:15, slippery:15,

Possession WR1 -

Strength:
60
Speed:
74
Agility:
74
Jumping:
68
Stamina:
50
Vision:
68
Confidence:
50
Catching:
68
Carrying:
74

cut:6, diving_catch:2, first_step:6, head_fake:10, juke:10, jumping_catch:2, route_running:10, spin:10, sticky_hands:6

mr_reliable:15, nerves_of_steel:15, possession_receiver:15, quick_feet:15, slippery:15, sure_hands:15

Speed WR1 -

Strength:
30
Speed:
100
Agility:
74
Jumping:
48
Stamina:
45
Vision:
60
Confidence:
35
Catching:
64
Carrying:
60

cut:8, first_step:8, head_fake:10, juke:10, route_running:4, spin:10

bonus_agility:15, bonus_speed:15, comeback_kid:15, quick_feet:15, slippery:15, sure_hands:15

Receiving TE1 -

Strength:
63
Speed:
87
Agility:
68
Jumping:
50
Stamina:
50
Vision:
50
Confidence:
40
Catching:
68
Carrying:
68

cover_up:2, cut:10, route_running:10, sticky_hands:5

mr_reliable:15, nerves_of_steel:5, possession_receiver:15, slippery:15, yac_attack:15

Originally posted by PP

just a nice play, showing more human zone coverage
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1642&pbp_id=355781



That play makes me want to puke. The FS would never be on a human team. The QB had an easy TD if he threw to the right man.

I liked this play:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1642&pbp_id=355725

This play is "WTF FS?" There were many of these.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1642&pbp_id=355727

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by beenlurken



Lastly, I wouldnt say its "rare" for a WR to fumble in real life as it seems most of the big name wrs in the NFL average 1-2 fumbles per season (certainly not as many as HBs average but significantly more than the 1 fumble my season 1 WR has accumulated over 13 seasons despite having average at best carrying/strength/etc).

The most fumbles so far this season by a WR is 3 in the NFL...and only 17 WR's and 2 TE's have more than 1 fumble. Yes...its RARE.

The most fumbles so far this season by a HB is 6 in the NFL... 3 have 5 fumbles, 5 have 4 fumbles, 9 have 3 fumbles and 17 have 2 fumbles.

Also.. you must consider that these HB's touch the ball 4-5 times more than the wrs. I would bet the fumble rates are pretty similar if the WRs touched the ball as much as the HBs

Do you still think it is "RARE" for a WR to fumble?

Look at the NFL wrs career stats almost all of them average 1+ fumbles a season. In GLB wrs average 1-2 combined for their entire 12-13 season careers. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF RARE.

Originally posted by idm03
That play makes me want to puke. The FS would never be on a human team. The QB had an easy TD if he threw to the right man.

I liked this play:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1642&pbp_id=355725

This play is "WTF FS?" There were many of these.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1642&pbp_id=355727


You can't pay attention to the D, just their reaction times. They are just Bort's standard designed zones and they leave a ton to be desired. I've never ran pure zone Ds and woudn't even consider myself a DC. So, I leave that stuff to the real DCs that are testers. Also, when talking about liking the plays, I'm mainly referring to where the QB hits the WR in his route in respect to the defenders' positioning. That's not the same as hitting the right WR. Note the comments I made on that in the last test.

Regarding QBs being able to hit targets more quickly - does distance to have anything to do with it?

All things being equal (QR, arm strength, etc) a QB should be able to hit WRs around 10 yards downfield very quickly (i.e. short throwing motion) but take a longer wind-up for deep passes. Also stronger armed QBs should be able to flick the ball short/med very quickly. Just wondering if this is accounted for anywhere...

Originally posted by beenlurken
The most fumbles so far this season by a HB is 6 in the NFL... 3 have 5 fumbles, 5 have 4 fumbles, 9 have 3 fumbles and 17 have 2 fumbles.

Also.. you must consider that these HB's touch the ball 4-5 times more than the wrs. I would bet the fumble rates are pretty similar if the WRs touched the ball as much as the HBs

Do you still think it is "RARE" for a WR to fumble?

Look at the NFL wrs career stats almost all of them average 1+ fumbles a season. In GLB wrs average 1-2 combined for their entire 12-13 season careers. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF RARE.



ugh...there were 5 WR fumbles in this game...FIVE...and all of which came directly after the catch...you are making kind of a ridiculous argument here by bringing up the amount of touches...i meant rare as in...you will RARELY see 2 WR fumbles in one game...its not something that is highly common...its not meant as a ratio of fumbles per touch argument...im perfectly fine with a WR fumbling 3 times in a season...but in the sims i have watched on the test server with the new fumble frequency over the knocked loose passes....fumbling is a little ridiculous and basically most speed WR's right now would be looking at possibly around 10+ fumbles a season...

Originally posted by bhall43
ugh...there were 5 WR fumbles in this game...FIVE...and all of which came directly after the catch...you are making kind of a ridiculous argument here by bringing up the amount of touches...i meant rare as in...you will RARELY see 2 WR fumbles in one game...its not something that is highly common...its not meant as a ratio of fumbles per touch argument...im perfectly fine with a WR fumbling 3 times in a season...but in the sims i have watched on the test server with the new fumble frequency over the knocked loose passes....fumbling is a little ridiculous and basically most speed WR's right now would be looking at possibly around 10+ fumbles a season...

There were also 36 receptions combined made by those two speedy wrs resulting in 4 fumbles. How many receptions does the average Pro/WL wr accumulate over a season? 60? 70? We are talking about fumble prone speedy wrs (those speedy builds in the test are really lacking in one or several of str/carrying/stamina/confidence) having ~8 fumbles per season to start off with. I dont think that is extreme (considering this should be implement in the off season with a big announcement which would allow players to adjust so maybe it drops to ~6 fumbles or less a season for burner wrs). Do you really have a problem with that?

One of those speedy wrs has 17 receptions for 338 yards and 6 tds to go along with their 2 fumbles. I would argue the three offensive stats are every bit as ridiculous as the fumbles. To me that stat-line looks balanced (risked having a burner wr to move the ball down field to score 6 tds, as well as position the team for points scored by other players, at the expense of 2 turnovers... fair risk/reward imo).

Thoughts?

Originally posted by beenlurken
There were also 36 receptions combined made by those two speedy wrs resulting in 4 fumbles. How many receptions does the average Pro/WL wr accumulate over a season? 60? 70? We are talking about fumble prone speedy wrs (those speedy builds in the test are really lacking in one or several of str/carrying/stamina/confidence) having ~8 fumbles per season to start off with. I dont think that is extreme (considering this should be implement in the off season with a big announcement which would allow players to adjust so maybe it drops to ~6 fumbles or less a season for burner wrs). Do you really have a problem with that?

One of those speedy wrs has 17 receptions for 338 yards and 6 tds to go along with their 2 fumbles. I would argue the three offensive stats are every bit as ridiculous as the fumbles. To me that stat-line looks balanced (risked having a burner wr to move the ball down field to score 6 tds, as well as position the team for points scored by other players, at the expense of 2 turnovers... fair risk/reward imo).

Thoughts?

i guess i see what you are saying now...I still feel the fumbles are a little ridic tho...

as far as the crazy offensive stats...i would say its more to do with the lolpredesigned defenses than anything...