Warrior General Games

The other proposals on how to "fix" the turnover problem are only addressing the symptoms and not the underlying cause of this issue. Even Bort's slider "solution" won't actually address the cause, it will merely obscure it. The problem isn't builds, but rather the fact that experiencing a turnover dramatically raises your chance of having another turnover. That should not happen, as your % turnover chance should be determined solely by your build and the build of the defender.


Here is what currently happens: (note that these percentages are theoretical and should not be considered accurate)


HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence has a 2% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence has a 3% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.


So builds are the primary determinant in the first turnover, but only the first turnover. Now, if HB1 is unlucky and hits that 2% chance, then the sim currently penalizes him for that by dramatically increasing his chance for a second turnover. For expediency, let's assume that the sim causes the chance to double.


HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence now has a 4% base chance to fumble.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence still has a 3% base chance to fumble.


By this point, HB1 has a greater chance of experiencing a turnover than HB2 despite the fact that he obviously has a better build. That's the problem. Now, if HB1 gets unlucky yet again and hits that 4% chance, then his probability of experiencing another turnover increases yet again.


HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence now has an 8% base chance to fumble.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence still has a 3% base chance to fumble.


And if it happens again, then the chance doubles once more.


HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence now has a 16% base chance to fumble.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence still has a 3% base chance to fumble.


This is what causes these mass-fumble games. It is a sim issue and needs a sim fix, not just a band-aid to cover it up. If the chance of experiencing a turnover is determined solely by the offensive and defensive player's builds, then we won't have this issue. Turnovers actually will be determined by builds instead of a cascade effect If you make that change, then games will look like this:


No fumbles:
HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence has a 2% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence has a 3% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.

After one fumble by HB1:

HB1 with 60 carrying, 60 strength, and 50 confidence still has a 2% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.
HB2 with 50 carrying, 50 strength, and 40 confidence still has a 3% base chance to fumble before any defensive modifiers.


"Fix your builds!" trolls should not even bother responding to this thread. If you haven't had any mass-turnover games, it's because you're like most people and hit the odds, not because your build is any better than the people who have been victimized. Those of you who have a question about what I'm saying because you either don't understand it or don't agree with it, post and I'll try my best to answer. My concern is that if the underlying cause of this problem is not addressed, we'll end up seeing it again in the future. This problem occurred in Season 5, and obviously Bort's band-aid solution then only hid this issue, it didn't correct it. Making turnovers independent of previous turnovers will correct it once and for all.

ok..You do realize that confidence has to do with your build right? So if you have low confidence, then you're gonna fumbled. You know that right? So you're saying htat guys with 40 in confidence should be fumbling alot

Originally posted by Jason Cash
ok..so do away with confidence and morale then? that'd be fine if the same happened with missed tackles
No, it's fine to have confidence affect other aspects of performance. So a HB with low morale could have a harder time catching balls, breaking tackles, or be slower in getting up to speed. All that is fine because it is not subject to this game-changing cascade effect the way that turnovers are. It's also fine to have the amount of points in confidence affect your chance of having a turnover, but it should be in effect constantly. So if you have low confidence, I'm fine with that making you more likely to fumble, but it should do so whether you've had any turnovers already or not.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Jason Cash

ok..so do away with confidence and morale then? that'd be fine if the same happened with missed tackles
No, it's fine to have confidence affect other aspects of performance. So a HB with low morale could have a harder time catching balls, breaking tackles, or be slower in getting up to speed. All that is fine because it is not subject to this game-changing cascade effect the way that turnovers are.

but morale would affect fumbles as well the same way the back would have trouble catching. It's like the back is afraid to get hit and coughs u pthe ball

Originally posted by Jason Cash
but morale would affect fumbles as well
Did you read the post? I explained why morale shouldn't affect turnovers, because that causes the potential for this cascade effect where HBs & QBs can randomly experience these mass-turnover games regardless of their builds.

Why should fumbling once have NO effect on chance to fumble in the near future? What does confidence become?

Like I said, I am all about confidence having more of an impact than it does to stop the downward spiral, but completely factoring it out is not the way to go about it. Or, perhaps, allow the option to pull a player if he fumbles x amount of times. That is how it works in the NFL. Live to fight another day. That is partially why fumbles in the NFL have gone down pretty consistently throughout the years.

And you don't decide who posts in your thread. You posted in every other thread made about fixing the problem. Oh, and I can read and comprehend just fine, so save it.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Jason Cash

but morale would affect fumbles as well
Did you read the post? I explained why morale shouldn't affect turnovers, because that causes the potential for this cascade effect where HBs & QBs can randomly experience these mass-turnover games regardless of their builds.


but you seemingly have no common sense..or even really know what condifence and morale actually are. IF morale effects the speed that the back runs and catches, then why not fumbles? It's basically the same trend. "afraid to get hit"

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Jason Cash

but morale would affect fumbles as well
Did you read the post? I explained why morale shouldn't affect turnovers, because that causes the potential for this cascade effect where HBs & QBs can randomly experience these mass-turnover games regardless of their builds.


but if they had high confidence than they would not be effected by the cascade effect because their moral would not drop as much

confidence is a stat you can increase... so therefor it would be based on build

Originally posted by Chysil
Originally posted by jdbolick

Originally posted by Jason Cash


but morale would affect fumbles as well
Did you read the post? I explained why morale shouldn't affect turnovers, because that causes the potential for this cascade effect where HBs & QBs can randomly experience these mass-turnover games regardless of their builds.


but if they had high confidence than they would not be effected by the cascade effect because their moral would not drop as much

confidence is a stat you can increase... so therefor it would be based on build

jd doesnt understand any of that stuff. and its common sense really

Originally posted by kretchfoop
Why should fumbling once have NO effect on chance to fumble in the near future?
As I have already explained repeatedly, it shouldn't be a factor precisely because it causes the potential for this cascade effect where your build no longer matters. Builds should always matter.

Originally posted by
What does confidence become?
Confidence can be factored into the base turnover % chance. So QB1 with 20 less confidence than QB2 might have a 0.5% greater chance of throwing an interception. But it should be the same for the first pass as it is for any other.

Originally posted by
Or, perhaps, allow the option to pull a player if he fumbles x amount of times. That is how it works in the NFL.
That is not how it works in the NFL. NFL HBs don't become more likely to fumble because they're bummed about fumbling already, and teams don't suddenly pull their star HBs just because they've had a fumble or two.

Originally posted by
And you don't decide who posts in your thread.
I can't stop the idiots and trolls from posting in this thread, but I'm certainly going to flame them and expose their idiocy if they choose to piss in my thread.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by kretchfoop

Why should fumbling once have NO effect on chance to fumble in the near future?
As I have already explained repeatedly, it shouldn't be a factor precisely because it causes the potential for this cascade effect where your build no longer matters. Builds should always matter.

Originally posted by

What does confidence become?
Confidence can be factored into the base turnover % chance. So QB1 with 20 less confidence than QB2 might have a 0.5% greater chance of throwing an interception. But it should be the same for the first pass as it is for any other.

Originally posted by

Or, perhaps, allow the option to pull a player if he fumbles x amount of times. That is how it works in the NFL.
That is not how it works in the NFL. NFL HBs don't become more likely to fumble because they're bummed about fumbling already, and teams don't suddenly pull their star HBs just because they've had a fumble or two.

Originally posted by

And you don't decide who posts in your thread.
I can't stop the idiots and trolls from posting in this thread, but I'm certainly going to flame them and expose their idiocy if they choose to piss in my thread.

Idiocy? Dude you dont even understand how the game, or football in general, actually works. Confidence is confidence in yourself. So you fumbled..you keep fumbling. It gets in your head. You miss a tackle...then you keep missing tackles because it gets in your head. You cant just do away with confidence

Originally posted by Jason Cash
but you seemingly have no common sense..or even really know what condifence and morale actually are. IF morale effects the speed that the back runs and catches, then why not fumbles? It's basically the same trend. "afraid to get hit"
I explained why fumbles shouldn't be affected. Seriously, dude, if you're not smart enough to understand a concept then you just shouldn't respond. Sit in a corner and wait until the dumb people have a conversation that you're more prepared to participate in. You don't understand the probability involved, so you can't understand what I'm saying. Having turnover chance affected by whether or not you've had a previous turnover leads to this recursive feedback, which ends up causing this cascade effect where builds no longer matter.


Originally posted by Chysil
but if they had high confidence than they would not be effected by the cascade effect because their moral would not drop as much. confidence is a stat you can increase... so therefor it would be based on build
Wrong. We have already seen that high confidence does not prevent this cascade effect. QBs with confidence in the 60s and 70s still have it happen to them because the current penalty for a previous turnover is too strong for any build to overcome.


Honestly, I don't get why you people have such a hard time understanding this. If already having a turnover doesn't affect the chance of having an additional turnover, then builds will always be the primary determinant. Why should HB1 ever have a greater chance of having a fumble than HB2 if HB1 has a much better build? That makes no sense. HB1's turnover chance should be constant, and it should be constantly higher than HB2's, because HB1 has a better build. Ditto for QBs. If QB1 has a better build, how does it make sense for him to have a higher turnover chance than QB2 just because QB1 got unlucky and had an interception on his first pass? It makes no sense, and it ruins games.

WE dont understand why YOU arent getting simple logic. QBs are gonna fumble because of carrying. How many QBs actually put points into carrying?

Confidence has EVERYTHING to do with fumbles. Low confidence is gonna make that back unsure of himself. He fumbles once...twice..maybe 3 times and he gets a "monkey on his back"

What you're speaking of would be in-game morale.. Which is also affected my confidence

You are hilarious. The fact that you claim that is NOT how the NFL works is tantamount to the fact that you claim you know how GLB works. Does fumbling once or twice in a game get in a players head and cause him to play worse and potentially fumble again? Not so much if he is confident and has his head on straight. Do coaches pull a player that fumbles a few times in a game? Yes. I guess you know more than an NFL coach. They pull them to punish them not because they are interested in winning the game, right?

I suppose you also know exactly how GLB functions too. I know it is hard to break through your delusions of grandeur, but when everyone says you're wrong...no, we must all be idiots without the dotball credentials you have. That must be it.

Rather than buff the effect of confidence on restoring morale, lets just change the entire way the sim operates. Great plan.

Originally posted by Jason Cash
Originally posted by Chysil

Originally posted by jdbolick


Originally posted by Jason Cash



but morale would affect fumbles as well
Did you read the post? I explained why morale shouldn't affect turnovers, because that causes the potential for this cascade effect where HBs & QBs can randomly experience these mass-turnover games regardless of their builds.


but if they had high confidence than they would not be effected by the cascade effect because their moral would not drop as much

confidence is a stat you can increase... so therefor it would be based on build

jd doesnt understand any of that stuff. and its common sense really

no, jd knows everything. Look at his big head. Look at all of that hot air inside. It's about to explode if he does not call someone idiot or illiterate soon.