Warrior General Games

Thanks... after the brief forum panic I was getting a bit worried.

I did my own test with the real sims.

10 VP in Special Teamer
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=550792&pbp_id=2006678

No VAs
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=550797&pbp_id=2867047

Tony "Whos the Boss" Danza (DE) gets to the 40 in the same time. He should have +10% in all skills. I would think he would be a little faster. At least 6.5 points faster.

Actually I use Bigge Smalls (DE) as my base as he has not changed. I pause the play then click forward till Bigge Smalls (DE)
gets to the 40 yd line. Tony "Whos the Boss" Danza (DE) is in the same spot in both plays. The first kickoff of each game so stamina has not changed. I would hope that 6.5 points in speed not to mention all his other skills should get him a little further in a short run.

Is my test flawed?

Originally posted by thehazyone

For the purposes of the test, I paid particular attention to KOR's because it is the one play where the special teams players turn around and sprint downfield (on kickoffs, the players make adjustments to where the ball is heading and to avoid potential blockers).



Try those two on KOR and not KOS and you'll notice the difference. On KOS the players are making adjustments due to the flight of the ball and avoiding potential blockers, on KOR they are merely turning their back and sprinting downfield so that they can get in position to block.

Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by thehazyone


For the purposes of the test, I paid particular attention to KOR's because it is the one play where the special teams players turn around and sprint downfield (on kickoffs, the players make adjustments to where the ball is heading and to avoid potential blockers).



Try those two on KOR and not KOS and you'll notice the difference. On KOS the players are making adjustments due to the flight of the ball and avoiding potential blockers, on KOR they are merely turning their back and sprinting downfield so that they can get in position to block.


Crap, I moved him on KOR to test other stuff. I thought KOS was a good test since they run in a straight line to the 40 yd line. I still don't think there is much difference.

Anyways, your links are all from the same game. Where is the replays of the same players without VAs so we can compare their performance?

EDIT:

The players with VAs and without VAs are in different positions. Can we see them in identical positions to compare? Then measure the actual speed? I think the FW or the OU positions may be the easiest to see. The BW can't be seen till the returner gets the ball. Then they look like they are seeking players to block.

f you look at the Y positions of the players BEFORE the ball even moves, here are the results of their starting Y position, and the position in the last tick before the ball is kicked.

They all start out at Y=269.75. None of their X positions change (no sideways movement)
KOS Nine: Y position 249
KOS Three and Seven: Y position 250.75
All Others: Y position 249.75

The lower number indicates getting downfield quicker.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=911&pbp_id=212387

Is it possible that it is working on kick return but not on kickoffs. Missing bracket or something little in the code?

Also, could you post the final energy of the players. It is not a fair comparison since they are all doing different things on the field.

But regardless of that, it seems like the players losing 75% less energy per play should still finish with higher energy than the ones without Distance Runner.

My last game
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game_summary.pl?game_id=545216

Gwen Stacy
27 plays, all STs
53 Stamina
15 in Special Teamer (7.5 boost to stamina)
Finished with 68 energy

Thanos of Titan
27 plays, all STs
50 Stamina
15 in Special Teamer (7.5 boost to stamina)
15 in Distance Runner - in theory should reduce energy loss by 75%!
Finished with 61 energy

In summary, Thanos lost a total of 156 energy in the game, which was cut by 75% to 39.
Gwen played the exact same plays and lost 32 energy.

Thier stamina is almost the same. They were doing different things on the plays, but one player lost almost 4 times the amount of energy as the next?

I think all the above findings including my own are showing that this VA is not working as advertised. The Special teamer should be overpowered if it did work. Maybe the plan is to not overpower it. If that is the case just fix the description so nobody uses the worthless VA. Gaining 1 tick worth of speed in a play is not a 10% to 15% boost in all skills.

For most players the results should be like putting level 40 eq on each skill. Maybe that would be a better test. Take the 3 FW positions in the kick return. Have 3 identical players. FW1 with 15 special teamer. FW2 without any VAs. Finally FW3 witout any VAs but with equipment in each skill that is equal to the gains that FW1 should be getting from 15 VP in special teamer. If FW1 and FW3 move identical then the skill working as described. If not it needs to be looked at.

Also please do not use the term working as inteded. That does not mean the same thing as working as described. Intended sounds like its working the way the programmer wants but gives no indication that is the same as it is described.

I hope we can figure this out. Thank you.

Why not build:
A) a player with x skills at 70/70/70
B) Another with 70/70/70 +15 in special teamer
C) Another with 80.5/80.5/80.5 no VAs

player B and C should be equal

Originally posted by The Duff Man
Is it possible that it is working on kick return but not on kickoffs. Missing bracket or something little in the code?

My opinion is that it is this. Kick returns with players having this VA look very good. Kick coverage does not.

Sorry Duff - I know you're convinced it's broke, but it's simply not. It's not going to work in one aspect (kick returns) and not in another (kick coverage).

It doesn't matter where players are before the ball even moves, players are making adjustments because of blockers. The key on kick coverage is to look at how the players with the VA's are having an impact in comparison to those that do not have it. While the players without the VA will make the occasional play, more times than not it is the player with the VA's that are doing something (making a tackle or block).

I'm not retesting this but I will make sure Bort looks at the test so that he can verify that he agrees with my conclusions. I will post his statement back here.

Originally posted by ChicagoTRS
Why not build:
A) a player with x skills at 70/70/70
B) Another with 70/70/70 +15 in special teamer
C) Another with 80.5/80.5/80.5 no VAs

player B and C should be equal

How about this idea? It seems like the best chance of actually proving if the VA works or not.

I would be willing to offer my time to help in any way or even run the test if I can have access for just this test. I really have no desire to be a tester. I just want to shed light on this issue.

It's already been proven on kick return that the VA works. There's no need to retest it unless Bort tells me that players do not adjust to ball and potential blockers on kick offs. If he tells me that's not the case, then I'll revisit testing. I've asked him if this is the case so I'll wait to see what he says.