Knowing that Mr Reliable is Fumble prevention on 1/2 downs does that interact with a JH or KL DB built with FF 15% AEQ.? From a D pov would extra FF work and/or be worth the cost ?
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Mr Reliable SA Versus KL DBs
Altech
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My read on that VA has been
Downs 1/2 it's 75% Avoid Fumble. Avoid Fumble is both anti-KL and regular AF
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5331542&page=1#50118978
Based on everything we know about KL from that link, you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF-- OR we'd have to assume Bort did some coding voodoo to make this specific 75% be ignored in the KL roll, or else it would be close to impossible.
On 3/4 down it changes to a 30% catch and 30% anti-KL specifically, which is obviously a significant drop in AF% and does nothing for ball carriers.
As a side note: in my experience, there's a metric butt ton of RNG on KL rolls. I've seen Defensive killers come up empty a lot. I believe it still takes a great "roll" to force a KL/Fumble against a good dot with any kind of AF%
I don't know if any of that was helpful. It basically comes down to what you think Bort did with the VA. But, remember there is no %KL or %Anti-KL gear. It's all Fumble based.
Downs 1/2 it's 75% Avoid Fumble. Avoid Fumble is both anti-KL and regular AF
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5331542&page=1#50118978
Based on everything we know about KL from that link, you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF-- OR we'd have to assume Bort did some coding voodoo to make this specific 75% be ignored in the KL roll, or else it would be close to impossible.
On 3/4 down it changes to a 30% catch and 30% anti-KL specifically, which is obviously a significant drop in AF% and does nothing for ball carriers.
As a side note: in my experience, there's a metric butt ton of RNG on KL rolls. I've seen Defensive killers come up empty a lot. I believe it still takes a great "roll" to force a KL/Fumble against a good dot with any kind of AF%
I don't know if any of that was helpful. It basically comes down to what you think Bort did with the VA. But, remember there is no %KL or %Anti-KL gear. It's all Fumble based.
Edited by Altech on Apr 11, 2026 13:25:59
Gambler75
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The 15% FFum is worth it in my experience.
Nearly every receiver will have MRR (75% KL resist on 1/2D), and WR/TE will have MRR and PossRecv (30%+30% = 60%) on 3rdD - but sHB/sFB will be more vulnerable on 3rdDs, since they don't get PR (WR/TE only), and they'll just have the MRR bonus.
It's a lot to overcome, but a bigger piece to me seems to be velocity of the hit. Man 2 man, we didn't have good luck causing KLs. Switching to more zone, with Ball Hawk + Zone Focus LB/CBs, so they're FLYING at the receiver at the hit? They've been crushing it.
Nearly every receiver will have MRR (75% KL resist on 1/2D), and WR/TE will have MRR and PossRecv (30%+30% = 60%) on 3rdD - but sHB/sFB will be more vulnerable on 3rdDs, since they don't get PR (WR/TE only), and they'll just have the MRR bonus.
It's a lot to overcome, but a bigger piece to me seems to be velocity of the hit. Man 2 man, we didn't have good luck causing KLs. Switching to more zone, with Ball Hawk + Zone Focus LB/CBs, so they're FLYING at the receiver at the hit? They've been crushing it.
Originally posted by Gambler75
The 15% FFum is worth it in my experience.
... but a bigger piece to me seems to be velocity of the hit. Man 2 man, we didn't have good luck causing KLs. Switching to more zone, with Ball Hawk + Zone Focus LB/CBs, so they're FLYING at the receiver at the hit? They've been crushing it.
I'm a big believer in velocity for the FF on receivers via Jackhammer, reason 32 why I love throwing the zone out there
The 15% FFum is worth it in my experience.
... but a bigger piece to me seems to be velocity of the hit. Man 2 man, we didn't have good luck causing KLs. Switching to more zone, with Ball Hawk + Zone Focus LB/CBs, so they're FLYING at the receiver at the hit? They've been crushing it.
I'm a big believer in velocity for the FF on receivers via Jackhammer, reason 32 why I love throwing the zone out there
danielsiebert
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Originally posted by Altech
My read on that VA has been
Downs 1/2 it's 75% Avoid Fumble. Avoid Fumble is both anti-KL and regular AF
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5331542&page=1#50118978 https://trees-hateyou.io
Based on everything we know about KL from that link, you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF-- OR we'd have to assume Bort did some coding voodoo to make this specific 75% be ignored in the KL roll, or else it would be close to impossible.
On 3/4 down it changes to a 30% catch and 30% anti-KL specifically, which is obviously a significant drop in AF% and does nothing for ball carriers.
As a side note: in my experience, there's a metric butt ton of RNG on KL rolls. I've seen Defensive killers come up empty a lot. I believe it still takes a great "roll" to force a KL/Fumble against a good dot with any kind of AF%
I don't know if any of that was helpful. It basically comes down to what you think Bort did with the VA. But, remember there is no %KL or %Anti-KL gear. It's all Fumble based.
When you say "you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF," are you assuming the 75% Avoid Fumble applies directly to the KL check itself, or just to the fumble outcome after a successful KL?
My read on that VA has been
Downs 1/2 it's 75% Avoid Fumble. Avoid Fumble is both anti-KL and regular AF
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5331542&page=1#50118978 https://trees-hateyou.io
Based on everything we know about KL from that link, you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF-- OR we'd have to assume Bort did some coding voodoo to make this specific 75% be ignored in the KL roll, or else it would be close to impossible.
On 3/4 down it changes to a 30% catch and 30% anti-KL specifically, which is obviously a significant drop in AF% and does nothing for ball carriers.
As a side note: in my experience, there's a metric butt ton of RNG on KL rolls. I've seen Defensive killers come up empty a lot. I believe it still takes a great "roll" to force a KL/Fumble against a good dot with any kind of AF%
I don't know if any of that was helpful. It basically comes down to what you think Bort did with the VA. But, remember there is no %KL or %Anti-KL gear. It's all Fumble based.
When you say "you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF," are you assuming the 75% Avoid Fumble applies directly to the KL check itself, or just to the fumble outcome after a successful KL?
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by danielsiebert
When you say "you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF," are you assuming the 75% Avoid Fumble applies directly to the KL check itself, or just to the fumble outcome after a successful KL?
there is no "after"
The check for KL is caused by a catch. A successful KL check changes that to a non-catch. A KL occurs in a very specific window of time. It might help to think of it as a type of PD that occurs after the WR has touched it. Instead of deflection mechanics, it uses fumble mechanics.
I don't know if that's helpful or more confusing.
A fumble can also occur after a catch, after it's been caught, and the WR has made a football move. That's not a KL though. Just a straight Force Fumble roll.
When you say "you'd need to be a bad MF to overcome 75% AF," are you assuming the 75% Avoid Fumble applies directly to the KL check itself, or just to the fumble outcome after a successful KL?
there is no "after"
The check for KL is caused by a catch. A successful KL check changes that to a non-catch. A KL occurs in a very specific window of time. It might help to think of it as a type of PD that occurs after the WR has touched it. Instead of deflection mechanics, it uses fumble mechanics.
I don't know if that's helpful or more confusing.
A fumble can also occur after a catch, after it's been caught, and the WR has made a football move. That's not a KL though. Just a straight Force Fumble roll.
Gambler75
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Very simplified, but think of it like this:
Mostly carrying + some Str contribution for the receiver to hold on.
Mostly tackling + some Str contribution for the defender to knock it loose.
Most WR builds are like 61-68 carry, and a lot finish at 6 Str, though I see more these days getting to 40-50 range.
Most KL LB/DB builds are around 100 tackling, and 70+ Str. The 75% KL resist from Mr Reliable, is getting eaten into by Power Tackler VA (+45% FFum), and any FF gear on the LB/DB. Then consider however much Jackhammer SA is adding to that roll.
Definitely not impossible to overcome, though with a lot of teams barely throwing to WRs ... the KL totals are suppressed as everyone throws 50 screens and dump passes per game, to the backs. Hawks still racked up 55 KLs last season in Pro, it's doable.
Mostly carrying + some Str contribution for the receiver to hold on.
Mostly tackling + some Str contribution for the defender to knock it loose.
Most WR builds are like 61-68 carry, and a lot finish at 6 Str, though I see more these days getting to 40-50 range.
Most KL LB/DB builds are around 100 tackling, and 70+ Str. The 75% KL resist from Mr Reliable, is getting eaten into by Power Tackler VA (+45% FFum), and any FF gear on the LB/DB. Then consider however much Jackhammer SA is adding to that roll.
Definitely not impossible to overcome, though with a lot of teams barely throwing to WRs ... the KL totals are suppressed as everyone throws 50 screens and dump passes per game, to the backs. Hawks still racked up 55 KLs last season in Pro, it's doable.
Edited by Gambler75 on Jun 1, 2026 16:00:40
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