Warrior General Games

Lets talk special abilities (SA). I’ve heard people say that the returns on an SA drop off hard once you go past level 10. From what I can tell, you can only assign up to 10 directly into any SA anyway. So if that’s really true, then what’s even the point of AEQ on an SA, just saving 24 skill points?

That’s why I have a hard time buying into the idea that SAs become basically worthless after 10. AEQ gives value beyond that: it gives you access to % gear (which you can’t get otherwise) and it can push an SA to levels you wouldn’t be able to reach without it.

It's been debated forever. There's a Bort quote saying he personally wouldn't recommend it after 13 or so.

What that actually means is anyone's guess.

My own personal guess is a cumulative 10% drop off.

Like for easy math, assume the SA gives +1 to doing something per point.

The 11th point would be +0.9, the 12th point would be 0.81 the 13th point would be 0.72, the 14th point would only be 0.65. You're paying for 4 points but only getting 3.08...

However the flip side is... More is always More. Think of it like Wrap up Tackle SA. That Extra more could mean the difference between making and missing a tackle

Originally posted by tremele
Lets talk special abilities (SA). I’ve heard people say that the returns on an SA drop off hard once you go past level 10. From what I can tell, you can only assign up to 10 directly into any SA anyway. So if that’s really true, then what’s even the point of AEQ on an SA, just saving 24 skill points?

That’s why I have a hard time buying into the idea that SAs become basically worthless after 10. AEQ gives value beyond that: it gives you access to % gear (which you can’t get otherwise) and it can push an SA to levels you wouldn’t be able to reach without it.

I don't think that the drop off is hard immediately after 10. From my memory, the drop off from 10 to 11 isn't that large, but it gets exponentially bigger the higher you take the SA over 10.

Something like a 4 AEQ offensive lineman could do +6 Pancake and save 38-40 SPs depending on if you want 10 or 11 Pancake at end build. You'd have to take Cut Block to 5 in order to get Pancake to 9/10, so it's more than just the cost of those 9/10 Pancake upgrades when adding in the prereqs.

One I use is Spin for a power HB. I don't want any of the top tree SAs except for Spin, and power HB doesn't need very many +% bonuses, just a double stack of Break Tackle % in most cases. I think it would cost like 26 SPs to get Spin to 6? Use those SPs to get another cap on your Jumping and some extra Confidence and break a lot more tackles, all at the cost of not having a piece of Not Fumble % gear or whatever else you'd be doing with that third +% bonus.

A specialist like a blitz CB doesn't really need any +% gear, so those guys I also like to stack a bunch of bonus SAs using the AEQ. You have to also consider the savings of the BT needed to purchase the bonus SAs too. Doing 2 AEQ on a 3rd bonus SA to 12 points saves a lot of BTs along with the SPs. Just make sure you build your CB with more than 50 strength/tackling (Wiseman, looking at you)

Originally posted by Little M
I don't think that the drop off is hard immediately after 10. From my memory, the drop off from 10 to 11 isn't that large, but it gets exponentially bigger the higher you take the SA over 10.

It's crazy to me that there is a drop at all. If you design an "advanced" piece that can enable you to break a barrier but it diminishes return immediately, it's a little weird to me.

Originally posted by tremele
It's crazy to me that there is a drop at all. If you design an "advanced" piece that can enable you to break a barrier but it diminishes return immediately, it's a little weird to me.

I think the problem there is that, with 4 pieces of AEQ, you could get a SA above 35. That would allow for some straight-up insanity for any SAs that increase both rate of fire and severity (see Spin, Big Boot, etc).

Also, what would a straight 35 in Shutdown Coverage look like? If 10 gives a noticeable boost to Speed, Agility, and pass deflection, then 35 would be insane.

Given, I don't necessarily think that would be a bad thing. You could really specialize players that way. But that's also far more work to balance.

Originally posted by Go Pack 120
I think the problem there is that, with 4 pieces of AEQ, you could get a SA above 35. That would allow for some straight-up insanity for any SAs that increase both rate of fire and severity (see Spin, Big Boot, etc).

Also, what would a straight 35 in Shutdown Coverage look like? If 10 gives a noticeable boost to Speed, Agility, and pass deflection, then 35 would be insane.

Given, I don't necessarily think that would be a bad thing. You could really specialize players that way. But that's also far more work to balance.



you got me running thru all the SAs to see what would be fun with 30+ SAs

Originally posted by dusk883


you got me running thru all the SAs to see what would be fun with 30+ SAs

I'm morbidly curious about Juke, not gonna lie. But I did see a Punter with 27 Big Boot, and the dot wasn't impressive. So I think it effectively caps off long before then.

Originally posted by Go Pack 120
I'm morbidly curious about Juke, not gonna lie. But I did see a Punter with 27 Big Boot, and the dot wasn't impressive. So I think it effectively caps off long before then.

Can confirm Juke over 10 is great...however I have not tried 27

Originally posted by PeeJJK
Can confirm Juke over 10 is great...however I have not tried 27

And when you say over 10, you mean… I’m pretty sure you’ve told us before so it’s okay to tell us again.

Originally posted by PeeJJK
Something like a 4 AEQ offensive lineman could do +6 Pancake and save 38-40 SPs depending on if you want 10 or 11 Pancake at end build. You'd have to take Cut Block to 5 in order to get Pancake to 9/10, so it's more than just the cost of those 9/10 Pancake upgrades when adding in the prereqs.

One I use is Spin for a power HB. I don't want any of the top tree SAs except for Spin, and power HB doesn't need very many +% bonuses, just a double stack of Break Tackle % in most cases. I think it would cost like 26 SPs to get Spin to 6? Use those SPs to get another cap on your Jumping and some extra Confidence and break a lot more tackles, all at the cost of not having a piece of Not Fumble % gear or whatever else you'd be doing with that third +% bonus.

A specialist like a blitz CB doesn't really need any +% gear, so those guys I also like to stack a bunch of bonus SAs using the AEQ. You have to also consider the savings of the BT needed to purchase the bonus SAs too. Doing 2 AEQ on a 3rd bonus SA to 12 points saves a lot of BTs along with the SPs. Just make sure you build your CB with more than 50 strength/tackling (Wiseman, looking at you)

This is the only use case I could see for an SA and probably then I still don't know if it's worth it. It's closer to 28 - 30 SPs because you also need to factor in custom equipment, which is almost a sure thing here. 28 - 30SP and +3 for 150 - 200 in PV doesn't seem worth it. I think I would take a 3rd % piece of the same type over an SA.

Originally posted by melon27
And when you say over 10, you mean… I’m pretty sure you’ve told us before so it’s okay to tell us again.

14-15 is nice for a scat back. 10 natural, (HBs get +1 from CEQ tree bonus), 4 from CEQ

I like swapping CEQ to Juke on my fake WRs as well to get to 14-15 when matching up against teams that leave CBs on islands with no help over the top (see Mob’s game today vs Flama). A Juke vs those kinds of defenses is easy TDs, but worthless against a zone defense.

Never tried to combo this strategy with an addition piece of AEQ to get 20-21, that sounds like a test for Wiseman or Conquesstidor