Warrior General Games

would someone explain to the pros & cons to early boosting?

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5337782

I actually don't know the answer but the link above suggests waiting until end build. My best guess for pro is maximize gains through auto level. Con being losing more games early on.

Originally posted by coachingubigr
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5337782

I actually don't know the answer but the link above suggests waiting until end build. My best guess for pro is maximize gains through auto level. Con being losing more games early on.



thx this helps

I've tried both ways. Quite a bit.

If you boost early, the end result can be just as good or even better than waiting to boost
IF
Extra emphasis in IF you completely focus on micro managing the build to take advantage of training gains and avoid the dead spots.

If I was building 1 ultimate dot for a team, and nothing else, I would absolutely boost early.

However, if you're trying to build a bunch of dots, or do anything else like coordinating or owning a team, you probably won't be able to get the most out of boosting early.

I build my players more or less intuitively now, but I've been doing it a long time. Basically I decide what I want the boost for. If I am in a dead spot for an attribute I want to add to and I want to jump up to the next cap, I will boost to do it. If I want to add to an attribute I am done training, why not boost to do it? I suppose it will add a few ALGs to some low level attribute I may be training, but the difference will be negligible. I don't build the absolute most optimized builds possible, but they're pretty good. I also do a lot more multi training than the linked post recommends, but I know what I want my players to do and I build them specifically for what I want each one to do.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
I build my players more or less intuitively now, but I've been doing it a long time. Basically I decide what I want the boost for. If I am in a dead spot for an attribute I want to add to and I want to jump up to the next cap, I will boost to do it. If I want to add to an attribute I am done training, why not boost to do it? I suppose it will add a few ALGs to some low level attribute I may be training, but the difference will be negligible. I don't build the absolute most optimized builds possible, but they're pretty good. I also do a lot more multi training than the linked post recommends, but I know what I want my players to do and I build them specifically for what I want each one to do.

I'm also onboard with making some choices by feel. I had just that choice to make earlier--apply skill points to take advantage of their lower cost, or hang on for a multi-train. I went with the multi-train--I wanted the other attributes to benefit. I'll be training the Major in question for a little longer anyway.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
I've tried both ways. Quite a bit.

If you boost early, the end result can be just as good or even better than waiting to boost
IF
Extra emphasis in IF you completely focus on micro managing the build to take advantage of training gains and avoid the dead spots.

If I was building 1 ultimate dot for a team, and nothing else, I would absolutely boost early.

However, if you're trying to build a bunch of dots, or do anything else like coordinating or owning a team, you probably won't be able to get the most out of boosting early.





Done it both ways. Waiting is better (and if you keep some TP until D4 even batter). End of story.

Early Boosting before level 37-40

Pros - None
Cons - All

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
I've tried both ways. Quite a bit.

If you boost early, the end result can be just as good or even better than waiting to boost
IF
Extra emphasis in IF you completely focus on micro managing the build to take advantage of training gains and avoid the dead spots.

If I was building 1 ultimate dot for a team, and nothing else, I would absolutely boost early.

However, if you're trying to build a bunch of dots, or do anything else like coordinating or owning a team, you probably won't be able to get the most out of boosting early.





You're not wrong, but getting a better build won't happen for every position if at all. For best value for training (for the most part) you're looking at 0 - 20 or 90+. Only a few positions can get atleast 3 attributes that high. If you can get them high enough fast enough you could really take advantage of it.

Originally posted by PaqMarq11
Early Boosting before level 37-40

Pros - None
Cons - All

we're talking using your 5 early boosts from 1 to 6 here.

What's a training 'dead spot'? I have heard of boosting in the mid-70s, but I haven't heard of this.

I've been around kind of a long time and I read a fair amount. Although, I must admit, I don't read thoroughly all the training plans, I'd rather go blind doing something else.

Originally posted by The Hitman
What's a training 'dead spot'? I have heard of boosting in the mid-70s, but I haven't heard of this.

I've been around kind of a long time and I read a fair amount. Although, I must admit, I don't read thoroughly all the training plans, I'd rather go blind doing something else.

I believe the Slug Sheets cover the training dead/hot spots

Originally posted by slughead42
I saw people bemoaning that document getting vanished from the interwebs and thought, hey, I could re-do those! And it turns out, yeah, I did, although it was much less straightforward than I thought it would be.

So, here's some links. They're all Google Sheets (spreadsheets), you should be able to view them but not edit them, but if you save your own copy either as a Google Sheet or Excel or whatever, you should be able to play around with them however you'd like.

Caveats: I spot checked these quite a bit, and I think that all the values are precisely what the GLB website gives under the same conditions, but if anyone finds discrepancies or problems or if I completely whiffed on something somewhere, PLEASE pm me and let me know.

There are 2 graphs in each sheet for Light, Normal, Intense, and 4X Multi, the first graph is the way the old one was done, just the SP value per train, but the second graph adds in the actual SP value (as in the actual BT gained/15) to each training level. This becomes more interesting in the final graph I will link, which shows that Total SP gained per train for each training type (at 20% enhanced training level for each one, I thought that the best compromise) together on the same graph. I find it interesting, hopefully others might as well.

I'm not sure why I'm driven to do projects like this, I'm sorry.

Light train tables/graphs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Yz0fPxMGIYvgL3MjFgw4t_c7sBIAV2t2L7KEi1byqg/edit?usp=sharing

Normal train tables/graphs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B7bmHJ8RW2WXyxKN00-1f88MFpQuW8E8V3KtjJT40gE/edit?usp=sharing

Intense train tables/graphs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GqVz01Bh9UF-5uWQan2Cky--rRmXzLbQIZzNhHu_W6o/edit?usp=sharing

4X Multi train tables/graphs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OoYEXF74xsHFnBRIHV-Zhq-TwSuMU6Jv0rzZbDLDTRo/edit?usp=sharing

Combined comparison training table/graps:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vTFGKLBA1dOynIZ3lquB5jon6IZ63lW6Fu0LKR7c0Fw/edit?usp=sharing

I don't get the jump up in SPs at level 48/49 in the intense training chart. In a simulation, using the player builder the training drops for about 21% when boosting and assigning SPs to 49.

Good questions.

This probably deserves it's own thread.

What the Slug Sheets (and the MandyRoss charts before that) show is the SP value for any given training session.

Here's a screen shot of a dot I have access to.

https://postimg.cc/7fQFHL5d

Vision 68, which is the end of the 3rd cap. Training at 19.5%
Catching 61, which is the end of the 2nd cap. Training at 26%
Jumping 51, which is near the begining of the 2nd cap. Training at 42.9%
Speed 18 , still in the 1 cap sweet spot. Training at 105.3%

So the next Vision training roll over will be worth 4 SPs.

https://postimg.cc/7J5NmqqJ

So the SP value of the next train is 4 X 0.195 = 0.78

The next Catching training roll over will be 3 SPs. So it's next train has 3 x 0.26 = 0.78 of SP value

The next Jumping roll over will only be worth 2 SPs, but it has 2 X 0.429 = 0.858 of value

Speed is easy to calculate, 1.053 of SP value.

====

Now those values should be represented in the Slug Sheets, probably within a couple of %s. I don't know if Sluggo actually created enough dots to see every % gain for every attribute point for every training enhancement level. I suspect there's probably some extrapolation happening, which might make the values a little bit off, especially with rounding being displayed differently.

For example... looking at the 4-way training graph
https://postimg.cc/WDttDz8Z

51 Jumping on the 5 star enhancement line (which this dot has) shows as 0.86. Basically dead on when rounding to 2 places.

18 Speed on the 1 star enhancement line is showing at 1.09 which is a little off, but in the general ball park of usability.
https://postimg.cc/8fTFtSMB

======

NOW... the general idea when looking for maximum math efficiency, is you want to avoid training in low spots if at all possible. Those are the "dead spots"

The first dead spot is essentially 31-47.
https://postimg.cc/Q9hxrqCj
You should train the attribute up to 31 and use 17 SPs to cap the attribute. It's pretty rare that you'll have exactly the right amount of SPs, so anywhere between 28 (spending 20 SPs) and 33 (spending 15 SPs) is what you're shooting for.


The next is 53-60. So after you 1-cap the attribute at 48, you can train it a few times, to push it up to where you can again spend about 18-20 SPs to 2-cap it.
https://postimg.cc/SjKk7Rz1

Fun fact: any training between 51 and 68 could be considered a dead spot, which is a great reason to boost early, if you really want to max out your chosen attribute at the expense of losing efficiency on your other attributes. Which I think is what that Maul Rat build guide is trying to explain.
https://postimg.cc/yJPC0C6z

If you're doing 4-way training, it's going to be impossible to get maximum efficiency on all 4 attributes all of the time. You're bound to get painted into a corner, where you'll have to train, even though it isn't ideal.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes


NOW... the general idea when looking for maximum math efficiency, is you want to avoid training in low spots if at all possible. Those are the "dead spots"



Great post, lots of great information! What I don't get is there is a general consensus to take your first attribute to 2nd cap before leveling up. What's the rush? Those training gains at the those low levels are sweet spots. I don't take my A1 to 2nd cap until I'm level 2 and have 20 skill points. It's much better to wait unless you're shooting for going extreme of 110+ natural.

Light Train A1 to 36 BT
Unlock A2, A3, & A4 MT

MT A1, A2, A3, A4 x1
Enhance A1

MT A1, A2, A3, A4 x1
Enhance A1

MT A1, A2, A3, A4 x1
Enhance A1

MT A1, A2, A3, A4 x1
Enhance A2

...and so on.

I haven't found a better way to build a dot statistically than this.