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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Would this 166 SPD / 88 STR Combo HB be usable at the WL level?
WiSeIVIaN
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I understand that this is a little fringy. It was a first VPB run-through and I kinda suck at building dots in general, but I'm curious for opinions?

1. If this dot existed today, would he have a WL job?

2. If you could make some minor tweaks (lower "x" to raise "y") what would you do? Please be reasonable / SP neutral in suggestions.

3. Are there any radical changes you'd suggest (won't work at all, give up hurdle/jump, give up catching, etc)


Thoughts are appreciated.

Combo RB:
Spd: 108 + 58 = 166
Str: 88
Car: 68
Agility: 68
Stamina: 48
Catching: 48
Jumping: 48

PowerThru: 4+6+1+2 = 13
Hurdle: 8+2 = 10

5%+5%+2% bt% = 25.5%

 
zz man
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Vision ?

Carry low (not sure if that effects Hurdle firing)

Stam as you know from me would send me spiralling into the Depression room !!!!

My thought would be in what is a "specialist" sim where do you see this dot being effective ?
 
XtremeT13
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I'm not the greatest dot builder myself..it would appear you are attempting to make a strong fast dot? I, too, am curious what the vision level is at for this build...hopefully it wasn't neglected as it will help. I wouldn't think hurdle is a huge need for a "faster power back", but carrying certainly would need to be a touch higher, you could probably afford to save some SP on a couple points of speed to help increase your Carrying and agility since agility is whats going to get that dot going from the snap, speed is straight line down the field speed, but if he can't get moving fast enough he won't get a chance to use that speed any...So my take (completely wrong I'm sure).. sacrifice some SP on Speed and increase carrying, agility and try to figure out a way to train up your stamina more and maybe use some end of build SP to bump it up??? I think hurdle would be best for a scat back or elusive back. If you are building a faster power back maybe look at brace 4 impact or lower shoulder to go with power thru??
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by zz man
Vision ?

Carry low (not sure if that effects Hurdle firing)

Stam as you know from me would send me spiralling into the Depression room !!!!

My thought would be in what is a "specialist" sim where do you see this dot being effective ?


I didn't work confidence/vision so with a 5-major dot, I think majors get to around ~33 off the top of my head.

Stamina, I could target maybe 55 but hesitant to go higher. RB's tend to be in 3-man rotations with non-scat's often getting 20-25 plays a game only.

Only jumping effects hurdle firing, but it's an adjustment to your break tackle score, so your str+car+bt%+SA have to combine a high enough value to trigger success and show on the pbp.


I see this dot as a special kinda powerback. Best spot is probably singleback formations where he can take screens, run inside (which 0strength elusives cant really), or run outside and turn the edge. But even in run formations, often 1 broken tackle would give the RB a long TD if they had 166 spd.

So the big question, is can this dot break tackles in WL?
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by XtremeT13
I'm not the greatest dot builder myself..it would appear you are attempting to make a strong fast dot? I, too, am curious what the vision level is at for this build...hopefully it wasn't neglected as it will help. I wouldn't think hurdle is a huge need for a "faster power back", but carrying certainly would need to be a touch higher, you could probably afford to save some SP on a couple points of speed to help increase your Carrying and agility since agility is whats going to get that dot going from the snap, speed is straight line down the field speed, but if he can't get moving fast enough he won't get a chance to use that speed any...So my take (completely wrong I'm sure).. sacrifice some SP on Speed and increase carrying, agility and try to figure out a way to train up your stamina more and maybe use some end of build SP to bump it up??? I think hurdle would be best for a scat back or elusive back. If you are building a faster power back maybe look at brace 4 impact or lower shoulder to go with power thru??


Thanks for the reply.

1. Vision is low, only like 33, but in my experience powerbacks high on the power slider don't need vision. There's a pHB in WL who's about to win his 2nd WL rushing title in a row with 5.5+ ypc both years, who has 31 vision.

2. Hurdle is just because (a) 50% of tackle attempts are diving, and (b) SA's firing gives a big boost to breaking tackles, so the hope is when hurdle or powerthru fire, maybe he breaks a tackle and takes it to the house?

3. Dropping a couple points of speed is a solid argument worth considering. It's tough because taking speed SO high is incredibly expensive, but the lower you get (closer to 160) you give away any legit speed edge you have over defenders, perhaps to the point where high speed isn't worth it at all.

4. Hurdle is a break tackle SA (adj to break tackle score) so it's best on powerbacks.

5. Brace 4 impact is worthless in generall and I'd only be using on screens. Lower shoulder really fires rarely and hurdle is a much much better SA if you have the jumping.
 
WiSeIVIaN
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zz just to add, I figure can throw a few pts on YAC attack on him for screens as well, just for fun.
 
Sugar Kapaa
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Which means more in break tackle, carry or strength?
 
TJ Spikes
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You're an OC, just give yourself a job.

90% of a dot's success or failure is the result of how the OC uses it.



 
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
You're an OC, just give yourself a job.

90% of a dot's success or failure is the result of how the OC uses it.





Yeah and a league leading HB still has to have an outstanding O-line! No way he is carrying the whole offense! I didn't look him up, but you have to have a great O-Line to make this happen 2 seasons in a row at that level! Not say'n the HB is common, just saying The O-line has to be stout too!
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Sugar Kapaa
Which means more in break tackle, carry or strength?


Strength, Size, then Carry. IMHO. Size gets overlooked a lot but it's huge to BT rolls. (size vs size... strength vs strength.) Carry helps SA's fire... and prevents fumbles (mostly). Strength and Size are the 2 biggest factors for break tackles. Again... IMHO based off all my 'Bort' notes.
Edited by Theo Wizzago on Jan 12, 2023 19:38:50
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by F00tballJunkie
Yeah and a league leading HB still has to have an outstanding O-line! No way he is carrying the whole offense! I didn't look him up, but you have to have a great O-Line to make this happen 2 seasons in a row at that level! Not say'n the HB is common, just saying The O-line has to be stout too!


Magic Bus is a special dot no doubt, but the blockers play a huge part.
Just look at that sweet YPC compared to the rest of the list: https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/stats.pl?season=96&league_id=280&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&playoffs=0

Even more impressive was 5.5 YPC on an 0-16 WL team last season, imo.
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Strength, Size, then Carry. IMHO. Size gets overlooked a lot but it's huge to BT rolls. (size vs size... strength vs strength.) Carry helps SA's fire... and prevents fumbles (mostly). Strength and Size are the 2 biggest factors for break tackles. Again... IMHO based off all my 'Bort' notes.


Unless I'm mistaken, carrying does not help break tackle SA's activate. The attribute that helps them trigger is spelled out in the SA (Power Thru = strength, Hurdle = Jumping).
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by Sugar Kapaa
Which means more in break tackle, carry or strength?


In my mind it's strength, but carrying is reasonably close and the 2nd most important attribute for break tackle roll.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Unless I'm mistaken, carrying does not help break tackle SA's activate. The attribute that helps them trigger is spelled out in the SA (Power Thru = strength, Hurdle = Jumping).


Carrying "Does your RB fumble a lot? Higher Carrying skill will help him hold on to the ball when hit hard, including during a catch attempt. Higher Carrying will also help him break tackles more easily, and use abilities such as Head Fake and Juke more effectively."

While it doesn't directly say Power Through and Hurdle... and, yes, you're spot on with (Power Thru = strength, Hurdle = Jumping), I still have no doubt it helps. Bort LOVES stacking and helper stuff. I'm not sure but I don't think there's any aspect of this game where something isn't helping (or stacking with) something else to determine an outcome... even though a lot of that isn't listed in print anywhere. So while Strength surely is the key for Power Through, I suspect it has help just as Carrying alone doesn't apply to Juke... Agility has a hand in this as well. And don't forget size. There's a huge difference in the ability to break a tackle when the dot is short and fat... not skinny. And small dot vs big dot generally equals bad result for the little guy.
 
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