Warrior General Games

Hey guys, I haven't made a dot in awhile. Below is my end build and build plan. Critiques/thoughts/debates. are fully welcome and appreciated!


Basis theories for build (i passionately believe these are all true):

Pass Quality >>> Pass Distance
Confidence >>>>>>>>> Strength
Speed + Agility are underrated on QB's
Favored SA's (since the favor bonus itself doesn't get diminishing returns) can be worth it pumped higher than meta


Final Build:

Strength: 72.26
Speed: 64
Agility: 64.26

Stamina: 60.26
Vision: 93.20
Confidence: 88.20

Throwing: 107.20 + 58 = 165.20
Carrying: 52.26

AE: +15% PQ, +15% PQ, +15% PQ, +Tight Spiral
CE: +12% PQ

Total Pass Quality: +27.75%
Pocket Passer: 10+1 = 11
Tight Spiral: 10+1+6 = 17 (favored also)



Build as carried out on VPB to achieve end-build:

s0d40+
-Normal train throwing while lvl3 enhancing throwing
-Pump Throwing with SP's (spend to next cap each time I'm able

s1d-6:
-Will have 36 BT's. Unlock multi-training for Vision+Confidence+strength
-Begin 4x multi-training with those+throwing
-Enhance vis1>conf1>str1>vis2>conf2>str2>vis3>conf3>str3 in that order as BT as available
-Continue to pump throwing with SP's as I can hit each softcap

s1d48
-Final SP into throwing (8-capping at 86 lvl 19) This will get me to 107.2 base throwing at lvl79 since I need to roll over last training point https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LAoadpECusXvrpYwlUQ-2Gcg4xyq0ZVE1fQlUBmVDEo/edit#gid=1221920117 for reference.

s2d1
-Softcap vision (48)

s2d5
-Once throwing rolls over to 100%, Switch throwing for agility as first multi-train attribute. 2x enhance for 18 BT

s2d6
-Softcap confidence (48)

s2d10.
-Boost from 22 to 25 to start gaining VP. Softcap strength during boosts
-Future SP's will go into pumping vision for awhile


s3d-8
-Swap agility (26) for stamina on multi-training, lvl1 enhance stamina

s3d9
-7 cap vision (77.3). This will be the end of your SP's in throwing, future SP into confidence

s3d20
-Change stamina (24.5) to carrying on the multi-train. 1x enhance carrying.

s3d40
-5 cap confidence (73)

s3d48
-2cap strength (61)

s4d-3 = change carrying -> speed on multi train and lvl1 enhance

s4d5 = 5-cap confidence at 77.4

s4d21 = 3-cap strength at 68..

s4d38 (lvl49) = stop multi training, since 1643 is light train BT's and needed for 4 AE. At lvl50 will shop for +3 throwing or +5% pq% pieces.

Light train vision until rollover 100%
Light train confidence until rollover 100%
Light train strength until rollover 100%
Softcap Agility (48)
Light train seed to 26
Softcap stamina (48)
Light train carrying to 30
Light train speed to 30
Softcap carrying (48)
Train Stamina from 48->52
2-cap agility (61)
Light agility until 100% roll-over
Softcap Speed (48)
Light train speed to 54
Stamina to 59
2-cap speed (61)
Light train carrying rest of the way
Final 71 SP into 10 pocket presence, 10 tight spiral, 2 cover-up, 3 speed

000000qb_pocket_passer09001030790254750711650000000016430004000000010100000015000000074.26000064064.26000010060.260093.20089.20000060107.2000008052.2600000800000800000810100000000000000000022813010200010303000300010000000tffffttfffffff01002010203

I like the build I personally think you shouldn't put much into speed pocket qbs aren't supposed to be fast. Strength is a bit lower than I'd like. Quick Read is op

why so little strength and so much carrying? Their isn't a huge amount of fumbling from Qbs.

Someone else here can probably explain this better, but I'll start it. A theory I've seen from some damn-good dot-builders is that a big component of pass quality is actually based on throw-distance-vs-Strength. So, if you have a QB with 20 Strength trying to throw 50 yards downfield, it won't matter how much Vision or how many +% Pass Quality buffs you have -- the pass will get tagged by the sim as a "bad pass." So if you want better-quality throws, you cannot ignore Strength.

Originally posted by OklahomaWolf
I like the build I personally think you shouldn't put much into speed pocket qbs aren't supposed to be fast. Strength is a bit lower than I'd like. Quick Read is op

Thanks for the thoughts.

Personally I despise quick read as an OC, since it takes away control of progressions and has qbs often flashs through them all, freak outs, and throw a deep pass into double coverage deep/late in a play. It's a personal preference thing, but quick read has to be my least favorite SA in the game


Regarding the spd/agi, being able to move a little helps to avoid pressure and pressure is one of your two reasons for throwing bad passes and INT's. Not saying 64/64 is perfect, just that the spd/agi matters for every qb. And yes I know he's not gonna Vick guys in the backfield, but as the qb feels pressure they move away from it, and distance to the defender while throwing is what is destroying pass quality on pressures.

Originally posted by 88Spam
why so little strength and so much carrying? Their isn't a huge amount of fumbling from Qbs.

Good point on carrying! When I ran through this I offhand assumed players softcap carrying but I see 22car WL guys with 0-1 fumbles since the players capable of pass rushing don't have the strength/ff to cause them quite apparently. So good thought to save me around 26 SP!

Originally posted by Novus
Someone else here can probably explain this better, but I'll start it. A theory I've seen from some damn-good dot-builders is that a big component of pass quality is actually based on throw-distance-vs-Strength. So, if you have a QB with 20 Strength trying to throw 50 yards downfield, it won't matter how much Vision or how many +% Pass Quality buffs you have -- the pass will get tagged by the sim as a "bad pass." So if you want better-quality throws, you cannot ignore Strength.

Building pretty/efficient dots has nothing to do with understanding the sim and what's optimal, honestly.

First, can we not pretend that 72 strength = 20 strength?

I ask you this, if every WL QB last season already had 90+ strength and 15%+ pass distance AE (and they did), and if that is the sweetest build there is, why was there only 1 QB out of 12 that had more TD's than INT's?

I have personally and anecdotally OC'd teams in this sim in WL with the same offense and the same supporting personnel, but went from a confidence 3rd qb (#1 WL offense, WL passing title leader) to a strength qb the following season (more INT's, less tds, less pts) then back mid-season to the original confidence guy (less INT's, more pts, same offense, same other dots).


The fact is, pressure and moral spiral are the causes of most interceptions, not your pass quality getting ruined by pass distance modifiers...

Also on AE/CE, what are the thoughts from the following 4 options:

1. +27.75% pq, 11 pocket passer, 17 tight spiral

2. +27.75% pq, 13 pocket passer, 13 tight spiral

3. +26.25% pq, 17 pocket passer, 17 tight spiral

4. +26.25% pq, 11 pocket passer, 23 tight spiral

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
The fact is, pressure and moral spiral are the causes of most interceptions, not your pass quality getting ruined by pass distance modifiers...

IMO... It's Ballhawk VA being broken that causes INTs. There's no fix for it, other than Bort's magic wand.

In addition to distance, Strength affects velocity. I've often wondered if a 130+ Strength, 130+ Passing build could throw good enough short range fireballs to pick a part a defense. I have no idea if ball velocity scales like that or if there's diminished returns, or if it's hard capped at some arbitrary maximum.

we have had the same QB have 38 TD, 36 INT, then a season with 25 TD and 39 INT in WL - no build changes obviously

my 3 time WL MVP QB had seasons of (seasons 85-89)

38/20 MVP
30/27
34/35
41/30 MVP
35/20 MVP

on HOOD in WL

the same QB builds really depend a lot on what the OC is doing as well as if the receivers get open

Originally posted by OklahomaWolf
I like the build I personally think you shouldn't put much into speed pocket qbs aren't supposed to be fast. Strength is a bit lower than I'd like. Quick Read is op

60 speed is the least amount of speed I would want on my QB

Speed and Agility help the QB move around in the pocket, drop back faster, avoid sacks, etc.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Also on AE/CE, what are the thoughts from the following 4 options:

1. +27.75% pq, 11 pocket passer, 17 tight spiral

2. +27.75% pq, 13 pocket passer, 13 tight spiral

3. +26.25% pq, 17 pocket passer, 17 tight spiral

4. +26.25% pq, 11 pocket passer, 23 tight spiral

of those 4 choices, option 2 - going past 12 is a waste for SA's - better to use those resources elsewhere

5. +27.75% PQ, +11 PP, +13 TS

Originally posted by reddogrw
we have had the same QB have 38 TD, 36 INT, then a season with 25 TD and 39 INT in WL - no build changes obviously

my 3 time WL MVP QB had seasons of (seasons 85-89)

38/20 MVP
30/27
34/35
41/30 MVP
35/20 MVP

on HOOD in WL

the same QB builds really depend a lot on what the OC is doing as well as if the receivers get open

Thanks for the input. Would you mind sharing the build on the QB in this thread? If not, how about just str/conf/pq%/pd%? Obv it does help to having a top2 OC in the game on hood.

And agreed OC and offense has a large impact, my premise is that the qb build has an impact as well and it isn't all just the degradation of OC ability at high levels.

Way back, the season GLB broke, I had been discussing a bug report with Support. One response I got from them was from Bort concerning speed. He said because of the QB's speed I the pass quality is taking a hit, suggested the SA to reduce that. So, IMHO, keep speed low.