Warrior General Games

What's the most important stat to prevent reverse pancakes? I make decent linemen, but the reverse pancakes are a little much. Thanks in advance.

probably strength since my pass blocking C gets reverse pancaked at about a 1 to 1 ratio with pancakes, but run blockers give out over 10 pancakes to 1 rev cake

You can deal with them also with high agility. They will just get back up and return to blocking. My son had a center that was caked 3 times in the same play.




Originally posted by kurttheman
What's the most important stat to prevent reverse pancakes? I make decent linemen, but the reverse pancakes are a little much. Thanks in advance.

IMO...
#1 Weight, if you're already at max...

#2 Height, If you're already at minimum...

#3 Strength. If you're over 160 already...

#4 Agility

If you didn't catch what TJ is saying..Always build max weight and minimum height. (Weebles wobble but they don't fall down.)
If you're old enough to know what a weeble is..you are old LOL

Many if not most defensive linemen end at 160+ strength. You have to be as close to that as you can get on your offensive linemen.

Agility should be around 90+
Blocking 100+

Originally posted by reddogrw
probably strength since my pass blocking C gets reverse pancaked at about a 1 to 1 ratio with pancakes, but run blockers give out over 10 pancakes to 1 rev cake

Centers always get bad stats even if built well. It's all the double and triple teams he faces as well as speedy LB blitzers up the gut.

I tried the 'Balance' SA... didn't see an improvement enough to warrant endorsing it.

I'm currently building my 3rd generation of 'test subjects' where I build two dots... same position and same everything but change the height on them . One is as tall as can build... the other as short. So far through 2 complete runs and about 1/2 way into me 3rd set I am noticing the following things;

#1. taller blockers tend to get more pancakes... but allow more sacks (I put that down to agility mostly). Bort had mentioned that leverage for taller players does add into that... but the downside is taller players are less agile (generally speaking).

#2. Shorter players might get less pancakes but they seem to hold their blocks longer. That's actually a good thing. Many defenders have NGU as a VA (I know I love it) and I see all the time where a player gets caked... then pops right back up and makes the play. My LB did just that last game... again. He went to tackle a PHB, got flattened for his efforts, the PHB laughed as he went past... only to watch the LB pop right back up and give him a wedgie tackle before he could get another yard down the field. Gotta love it.

All of this depends on the defensive dots you face as well. If someone loves short, agile, fast... D-linemen then tall O-line will likely struggle to engage/hold blocks. If, on the other hand, they love those hog mollies in the trenches then maybe you want some tall ol' road pavers.


BTW, to TheBear, Plop, Plop, Fizz, Fizz... I can't believe I ate the whole thing.

Hey guys I really appreciate the info. I love building o-line because not many people do. Just trying to tweak a few things. Thanks again.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago


BTW, to TheBear, Plop, Plop, Fizz, Fizz... I can't believe I ate the whole thing.


Yep..you are old

I think maybe as much as anything, Hold Block % is vital. You only get pancaked if you don't hold the block. Other than that, strength, blocking, agility, max weight. This is the guy you really want to ask

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4760014

Even though we had a lousy season, he still led all of World League in pancakes and in pancake to revcake ratio. If there is anyone who knows some tricks to that, its Jeff.

My mistake, I meant to say in our conference. Trophies are for conferences. I always make that misnomer.

Hold Block (%) gear I have found to be highly suspect and interesting. Mind you, I won't build a blocker without it but... here's what I've learned that I suspect some don't consider.

#1, how it works is HIGHLY dependent on the subtle win/lose parameters of each individual 'action' between 2 dots as well as how those dots skills match up. Examples;

An O-lineman against medium strength LB (48-65) generally results in a pancake so 'hold block' really has no effect here.

An O-lineman against a slightly lesser strength defender (66-89) generally results in >some< hold block engagement but eventually either the defender's agility, if decently higher than the O-lineman, allows the defender to 'escape' the block... or, if not, they get caked as above.

An O-lineman against EQUAL defender in strength and agility, then Hold Block is at it's best and can result in very long blocking engagements. This >can< be bad though; in the running game if you want your O-lineman to flatten and keep moving on to the next block... or in the passing game if engaged in a block which allows the blitzer a free pass to go by to the QB. I've seen it work like that.

When the O-lineman is the one who is lesser in strength and agility, Hold Block can be a bit of an equalizer... if paired up with a high 'Blocking' skill. I see this on ST's a lot where the skill matchups can get a bit whack but great blocking and a little Hold Block can really equalize the matchup. (Think STOP Centers which generally don't have world class strength [gave some for speed]).

#2, without the blocking skill to go with 'Hold Block' gear then it's not nearly as useful... unless, again, you're talking whack matchups where the skill sets offer enough counter-balance points to allow Hold Block to fire well. Example;

A Blocking WR vs a HH LB. Seen in some cases where outside runs are done and battled against. The HH might have more strength and agility but the WR could have real good blocking skill... so Hold Block fires and equalizes things a little... keeping the WR from being revcaked and allowing a longer held block vs the LB than it would without the HB% gear.

I could cite more 'matchup' and such things but I think this covers the idea of why HB% gear works well sometimes... and seems not to work at all at other times. I still wouldn't build a blocking dot without it... but it helps to understand why it fires/doesn't fire.


Also, here's a list of SA's that work well with HB% gear... and those that render it useless (in that particular instance).

Works great with; Get Low, Foundation, Hands, Strong Arm, Pass and Run Block.
Not much use with; Pancake and Shock Block.
Useless with Cut Block.

It's a good idea to build your SA's around your AEQ gear.

I agree with a lot of that post, Theo, but just to hopefully clarify - Hold Block % gear doesn't "fire" - that is, it is automatically applied every time a blocking interaction is being calculated.

It's not a magic bullet, though, b/c it's multiplicative. That is to say, if the result of your blocking calculation before the HB% is applied would be a 10% chance to make that block, having a 15% hold block piece would only raise your chance to 11.5%. (10 * 1.15). But if your blocking calculation before HB% comes out to 70%, then HB% of 15% raises that to 80.5% (70 * 1.15).

I can't remember off the top of my head whether SAs and VAs go into the calculation before or after any % pieces, I think it must be before, but don't quote me on that. If I am wrong on anything here, please someone help me out.

Originally posted by slughead42
I agree with a lot of that post, Theo, but just to hopefully clarify - Hold Block % gear doesn't "fire" - that is, it is automatically applied every time a blocking interaction is being calculated.

It's not a magic bullet, though, b/c it's multiplicative. That is to say, if the result of your blocking calculation before the HB% is applied would be a 10% chance to make that block, having a 15% hold block piece would only raise your chance to 11.5%. (10 * 1.15). But if your blocking calculation before HB% comes out to 70%, then HB% of 15% raises that to 80.5% (70 * 1.15).

I can't remember off the top of my head whether SAs and VAs go into the calculation before or after any % pieces, I think it must be before, but don't quote me on that. If I am wrong on anything here, please someone help me out.



This is a great post and spells out something that a lot of people miss. That said, percentage-based equipment is by far the most important equipment in the game, in my opinion. All O-linemen should double-stack (at least) hold block. All d-linemen should double-stack break block. All run-stopping defense should double-stack make tackle. Receivers should double-stack catch %. You get the picture.

There are positions and builds where it's not necessary; dots in the secondary mostly come to mind. But even then, having two make tackle pieces or two intercept pieces can be a great call.