Warrior General Games

does this not work as advertised? for speed wr...

We assume it works just not often useful. At the highest levels WRs aren't usually failing catch pass rolls, it's either deflected, intercepted or caught.

Originally posted by RyanCane26
We assume it works just not often useful. At the highest levels WRs aren't usually failing catch pass rolls, it's either deflected, intercepted or caught.

Wow, that's not good advice. You seem to be misunderstanding how the math works for contested catches. A lot of PDs and INTs don't go down like that if the receiver wins his contested catch roll. SH gives you another bite at the apple, if that is what you desire. Whether or not you succeed on the second attempt is another story- but I assure you, your WL recievers are failing catch pass rolls.

Originally posted by Bort
It is fairly complicated as there are lots of situations, but the general gist is (if I'm the CB):
- I have to see the ball is coming in the first place (vision check)
- I have to get into position near enough the the ball to interact with it (speed/agility etc)
- I have to check if I am even going to get a chance to interact with the ball (Int check? No? Swat check instead?)
- If I'm near the WR, I have to fight with him to see who gets a chance at the ball (my roll vs his roll)
- If I win, I get to intercept or swat the ball. (depends on first roll type that succeeded, and if the WR gives me trouble catching it)
- If I lose, the receiver gets to try and catch the ball. It's all up to him now, though my being close by makes it harder on him.
- If the receiver fails to catch the ball, I get once more chance to try and intercept it if I am close enough.
- If the receiver catches it, now I've got to tackle him. Here's my chance to knock it loose with a good hit

It depends on which roll you think is being re-rolled. The contested catch roll (bold), or the general catch roll (underlined) after you have passed the contested catch roll. I'm of the assumption that it is the latter, and I could be wrong but even if I am, as you stated the odds of success on your second attempt may also make the VA less useful, anyway.

My roll vs his roll. Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for but I forgot where to find it. That's the key- my roll vs his roll. That is the one people seem to forget. Now there is no proof, but I think that scenario happens a lot. Not only that, but if the receiver doesn't do a 'good' job with his catch, it could make him catch it slower and give the defender a chance to make it a 'his roll vs my roll" scenario. So much of GLB is all about the "his roll vs my roll" scenario. It makes sense because you aren't playing against air. Now, WL recievers aren't gonna have issues catching a wide open pass. The more it's contested the harder it is. It's basic, really.

soft vs sure? what say you all?

Look at the description of Sure Tackler and Sure Hands and you can see they are exactly parallel. Of course Sure Tackler is about CONTESTED rolls, right? If all Sure Tackler does is let you roll again if you utterly miss the tackle regardless of what the ball carrier does, it'd be worthless. You are over complicating these SAs. If the runner out rolls you so you miss the tackle you get a second roll. If the defender knocks the ball away as you're trying to catch it, you get another roll. It's no guarantee you will roll any better the second time, or that it will be enough even if you do, but you get another roll all the same.

Originally posted by Backes-to-Backes
soft vs sure? what say you all?

I would say both, ideally. If you can only get one, the math says better to increase your odds to catch the ball in the first place. Now, I'm speaking more about the catch% VAs like possession reciever or Mr. Reliable where you can compare the %s exactly- but then you also have to account for the fact those VAs are situational where sure hands is always in effect. Honestly, it works out about even in the end all things being equal, because it was designed that way. If it's not equal- say most of your targets are on 3rd down or shorter than 8 yards. But once I did the math between Mr Reliable and Sure Hands and it came out identical for most WRs accounting for how many targets were on 3rd down. But now I'm way off subject.

I just feel like Soft Hands is too valuable to pass up. The higher % gain makes a big difference, especially for a 4 Aeq build I think it'd be hard otherwise to get catching into the 90s and still have top speed and agility in the 90s and still have some kind of vision which you can't really ignore. That's just my opinion that I need it if I want 4 Aeq. Then I will still get sure hands and all the catch % VAs, although I might not get 15 in all of them

Originally posted by Backes-to-Backes
soft vs sure? what say you all?

neither or if you really want to use one go with Soft Hands - but you can get 88+ natural catching on a speed WR along with over 90 agility

listen to the guy who is a regular in WL (RyanCane26)

go with things that increase the initial catch% or the ability to Juke (hint hint) and get your man open

Finally found it...

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4829505&page=3#44683711

Originally posted by Bort
INT% is a + in defensive situations where you are in the middle or fighting for the ball. Catch% applies on catch attempts after the ball is dropped/tipped by the receiver and anyone could potentially catch it.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
Finally found it...

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4829505&page=3#44683711

Originally posted by Bort
INT% is a + in defensive situations where you are in the middle or fighting for the ball. Catch% applies on catch attempts after the ball is dropped/tipped by the receiver and anyone could potentially catch it.



That's useful information, but I'm fairly certain you meant it for another thread. I remember seeing a thread about that a couple days ago