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Monkey Boy
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Has anyone seen a comparison of these 2? It seems like 1st step would be substantially better, or is the surge bonus enough to compensate for not activating until you hit the LOS? Would it be useful to pair them in order to get surge to activate more often?
 
Mauler
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Originally posted by Monkey Boy
Has anyone seen a comparison of these 2? It seems like 1st step would be substantially better, or is the surge bonus enough to compensate for not activating until you hit the LOS? Would it be useful to pair them in order to get surge to activate more often?


Are we talking about building a BFB or a PWR HB?
 
TJ Spikes
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https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4768317

I'll assume your rFB. 1st Step has approximately 0 effect on running plays, because they're hard coded. It might fire if you got slowed to almost a full stop, but not tackled. I could probably track down a few Bort quotes.

Great for screen passes though.

Surge kicks in right at that point when the hard coding lets go, after your dot has already been pathed to the hole. It's the only artificial speed/acceleration boost that works in the backfield AFAIK. The rest is just attributes.


 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by

Originally posted by Bort
There is NO max speed limiter for routes or certain positions running routes, etc. I even just went and looked to make sure, because there are other times when speed is limited (such as qb handoffs). Speed and acceleration work on a linear progression towards a value calculated by speed, agility, weight, and other factors (speed and weight being by far most important for max speed). SA's, VA's, etc. of course factor in.

Originally posted by Doc
First Step only activates from a dead stop. Or is the tool tip wrong?
Originally posted by Bort
Yes, it's from a dead stop or close to it (there's a little leeway for having a very tiny movement vector).
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3938152&page=2#35045782


So, basically, 1st Step can't fire because of the speed limit going into the hand off, and by then you're already moving so it can't fire after.

 
Monkey Boy
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
So, basically, 1st Step can't fire because of the speed limit going into the hand off, and by then you're already moving so it can't fire after.



Thanks
 
gruppo
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4768317

I'll assume your rFB. 1st Step has approximately 0 effect on running plays, because they're hard coded. It might fire if you got slowed to almost a full stop, but not tackled. I could probably track down a few Bort quotes.

Great for screen passes though.

Surge kicks in right at that point when the hard coding lets go, after your dot has already been pathed to the hole. It's the only artificial speed/acceleration boost that works in the backfield AFAIK. The rest is just attributes.




do you think it will fire on counter runs, or is the speed to high still during the cut?
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by gruppo
do you think it will fire on counter runs, or is the speed to high still during the cut?


never tried it, wouldn't want to speculate... In theory if the dot had low enough cutting ability, it might come to a stop. Don't think it would even be worth testing on a running HB. Maybe try it on a scat HB that could benefit from it on screens.

 
Theo Wizzago
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After seeing all this info I'd have this take on 1st step and where it would help most (maybe). Description of 1st Step says it only works from a "Dead Stop". I can also tell you from years of working with returners that high speed/high agility dots seldom ever "stop". They make moving cuts just like receivers do in the passing game as well as defenders doing the same. Where I would think it would be the most useful would be on the O and D lines to enable them to fire off the snap and gain an advantage. Or a BFB in the backfield to better get ahead of the HB when blocking. Other than that maybe on ST's?
 
Mauler
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
After seeing all this info I'd have this take on 1st step and where it would help most (maybe). Description of 1st Step says it only works from a "Dead Stop". I can also tell you from years of working with returners that high speed/high agility dots seldom ever "stop". They make moving cuts just like receivers do in the passing game as well as defenders doing the same. Where I would think it would be the most useful would be on the O and D lines to enable them to fire off the snap and gain an advantage. Or a BFB in the backfield to better get ahead of the HB when blocking. Other than that maybe on ST's?


This!
 
Bluesman
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
After seeing all this info I'd have this take on 1st step and where it would help most (maybe). Description of 1st Step says it only works from a "Dead Stop". I can also tell you from years of working with returners that high speed/high agility dots seldom ever "stop". They make moving cuts just like receivers do in the passing game as well as defenders doing the same. Where I would think it would be the most useful would be on the O and D lines to enable them to fire off the snap and gain an advantage. Or a BFB in the backfield to better get ahead of the HB when blocking. Other than that maybe on ST's?


If I remember right 1st step works good with offensive guards but not offensive tackles, putting 1st step on a OT causes him to jump backwards on the snap allowing the d dot to run by it underneath.

I use to build my guards with aprox 85 speed using 1st step until everyone wanted pummel and AOI on them, it was fun watching thr guard with 1st step jump out pancake a d dot then quickly go after another d dot.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Good info Bluesman. Thanks.
 
Sonic
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
After seeing all this info I'd have this take on 1st step and where it would help most (maybe). Description of 1st Step says it only works from a "Dead Stop". I can also tell you from years of working with returners that high speed/high agility dots seldom ever "stop". They make moving cuts just like receivers do in the passing game as well as defenders doing the same. Where I would think it would be the most useful would be on the O and D lines to enable them to fire off the snap and gain an advantage. Or a BFB in the backfield to better get ahead of the HB when blocking. Other than that maybe on ST's?


 
Sonic
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Originally posted by Bluesman
If I remember right 1st step works good with offensive guards but not offensive tackles, putting 1st step on a OT causes him to jump backwards on the snap allowing the d dot to run by it underneath.

I use to build my guards with aprox 85 speed using 1st step until everyone wanted pummel and AOI on them, it was fun watching thr guard with 1st step jump out pancake a d dot then quickly go after another d dot.


Pulling G for the win! Now that was fun with first step
Edited by Sonic on Jan 10, 2021 21:50:18
Edited by Sonic on Jan 10, 2021 21:49:52
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Sonic
Pulling G for the win! Now that was fun with first step


I've tried it on a D-lineman as well and it works there as well. The biggest issue with it is that there are other SA's for the dots you might think of using it on that are better/more useful. But it is a decent SA for sure.
 
Kenshinzen
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I've tried it on a D-lineman as well and it works there as well. The biggest issue with it is that there are other SA's for the dots you might think of using it on that are better/more useful. But it is a decent SA for sure.


....for a pass rush DT.
 


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