Warrior General Games

I was as critical of this game's horrible Rookie kicking percentage as much as the next person. But, after watching some of the kickers miss in the NFL (just watching the TB v. MIN game), holy smokes, I think GLB is a lot closer to life than I want to admit.

So, let me be the first to apologize to the game devs. You guys actually rock!

Except when it happens over and over again to Star Kickers with 100 points in their kicking skills... That's the part that is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Bretto007
Except when it happens over and over again to Star Kickers with 100 points in their kicking skills... That's the part that is ridiculous.

Yeah, I hate missing FGs and XPs. I've lost a few games because of missed easy kicks. But, are we expecting kickers in game to be better than kickers in real life?

I don't at what rate kickers in game hit when they get to 100 accuracy & consistency but our Rookie kickers hit 76% and 72% FGs the last two seasons and 99% and 96% XPs. I'm guessing that only gets better when they move up the Tiers.

BTW, bug alert, the game doesn't show the FG % numbers on the League stats page. It shows 0 for everyone in the column (and yet the XP % works).

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/322098

Star Kicker in this game gets you 70% for kick percentage. Star Kickers in the NFL are 90%.

Originally posted by NLF
Star Kicker in this game gets you 70% for kick percentage. Star Kickers in the NFL are 90%.
Wow, that is surprising to have your kicker, with those stats, kicking only 75%. The highest league average in the NFL was 86.5% (in 2013) and it hasn't seen 75% or below since 1992.

Screw it. Dev's bring us out of the 90's and fix the effing kickers already!!

GLB isn't an NFL simulator.

It's pretty shitty that the best you can get for kicking with 100 accuracy 100 consistency is 75%

But anyway, here's this
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/d4h2r0/kicker_accuracy_accounting_for_distance/

Most of the linked kicker's kicks are between the 30-50 range, which at the NFL drop off pretty harshly. It is interesting that the NFL has a pretty even spread for every yard between 20 yards and 50 yards, but GLB is more lopsided towards longer kicks.

And factoring in the longer kicks, that kicker only has 70 FG Power. It's admittedly probably a bit low still, but it's not crazy off. Shorter kicks are probably more off than 40+ kicks.

Using data from last season for Snap "D at distances he attempted more than 10 kicks.


Yards 20-29 30-39 40-49

Snap 'D 75% 75% 68%

NFL Averages 94% 85% 71%


Yeah.... Just what the heck are we doing here? Why is 75% the best you can get after using a Star Player at the position?

Originally posted by Corndog
GLB isn't an NFL simulator.

People forget that

Originally posted by vipermaw82
People forget that

It's not? Seems like an NFL simulator to me. The whole game is NFL rules, positions, ect. The game wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the NFL. You're going to tell me this is a high school football simulator? When I reach Vet I'm playing on the varsity team?

All of that is beside the point anyways.

The point is a Star Kicker build with 100 accuracy 100 consistency can't get above 75%. The game is broken in this regard.

It's bizarre how one person can make a comment about wanting juke to fire differently because they noticed it looked funny to them one season and the developers latch onto that and make changes to accommodate but there have been countless complainants about kicking every season yet it gets ignored.

A good game rewards the player for playing well. That should be the fundamental philosophy behind every design decision. I think the point people are trying to make is that kicking is too out of the player's control and ultimately detracts from the integrity of the game. Since players lack the ability to decide when their team goes for it on 4th downs, they are too often entirely at the mercy of their kickers. When they lack the ability to influence that kicker's performance beyond relative trivial margins (since the game decides that even perfect kickers are heavily mistake prone), it just feels bad. A team that performed better should never (or close to never) lose to a team that performed worse just because they had better kicking RNG. When there is nothing the player can do to improve their chances to win, it becomes not a game at all. The most important part of a game is the relationship between the player and the outcome, and the kicking system functions almost entirely outside of that relationship.

Though, since I know Corndog is a big fan of RNG, perhaps consider introducing options to go for it on 4th downs instead if you want to leave kicking unchanged. Make kicking a choice, to be weighed against risks and rewards, rather than a necessity.

Originally posted by Kvothe27
When they lack the ability to influence that kicker's performance beyond relative trivial margins (since the game decides that even perfect kickers are heavily mistake prone), it just feels bad. A team that performed better should never (or close to never) lose to a team that performed worse just because they had better kicking RNG. When there is nothing the player can do to improve their chances to win, it becomes not a game at all. The most important part of a game is the relationship between the player and the outcome, and the kicking system functions almost entirely outside of that relationship.

Honestly, I pushed for Kickers and Punters to just be a generic "player" on a team that you don't actually create.

They are positions that operate outside of the dynamics of the game. They aren't affected by any other player on the field, and the only way to make them feel any kind of progress is if they are unacceptable garbage at the lower end. They have no meaningful skills they could invest in considering they just do one thing, so inevitably every build will more or less be the same.

There's no real agency aside from "behind higher level is better".

A fully boosted star kicker should be absolutely crushing it compared to a non boosted non star kicker. Stars are a scarce resource and boosting isn't cheap.

Originally posted by Corndog
Honestly, I pushed for Kickers and Punters to just be a generic "player" on a team that you don't actually create.

They are positions that operate outside of the dynamics of the game. They aren't affected by any other player on the field, and the only way to make them feel any kind of progress is if they are unacceptable garbage at the lower end. They have no meaningful skills they could invest in considering they just do one thing, so inevitably every build will more or less be the same.

There's no real agency aside from "behind higher level is better".

You are not wrong - at least without blocks and other real world special teams mechanics in the game.

Just as kind of a real world football issue: There is a reason Roberto Arguyo went from college's most accurate kicker of all time to couldn't make it in the NFL and it wasn't just the yips. The time to kick is different on a regular basis by about .2 to .3 seconds that's from windup to ball strike, having to do it faster to avoid blocks made him much less accurate. Not to date myself too much but I was in high school the same time Sebatian Janikowski was kicking in high school, and he was a local interest story. That team went from cellar dwell to regional playoffs because they started kicking 65+ yard FG's anytime they got close enough - that's actually easier in high school leg wise because he's got more time to windup, the people trying to block the kick are not 6'5" with great verticals and he can pretty much line drive it from there without worrying too much about it being blocked (similar to kick off angle). Same thing with punts the time to get the ball off is just less the higher the level of competition.

Priority #1 for me on kickers and punters has always been the morale effects - those are actually kinda video game hokie - in football no one gets jazzed up by the 5'7" kicker, yes they carry him off on their shoulders if he hits a game winner but he's not exactly giving the motivational speech most just ignore him and all those effects are kind of weird. You could add some excitement without it being goofy by adding some special teams effect and also let players make a rational choice on accuracy / power.

If you want to model some special teams effects in GLB without a whole bunch of recode or heavy server usage: Just say for 85% - 90% of the punts and field goals we are not going to run any additional checks at all proceed as intended.

(1) Ditch all the team morale/conditioning inducing SA's - these are goofy anyway, no one talks to kickers.

(2) Add Wind-Up Mechanics for punters and kickers. Basically the higher the windup mechanic the less time it takes them to kick (you don't need to show this in the replay it's enough that it works).
Add onside kick for place kickers.
(Obviously allow respec for both)
Make both relatively inexpensive for both but enough that someone is make choice of 90 accuracy with no onside kick ability vs. 85 with some onside kick ability.

(3) Have the kickers onside kick technique power the onside kick at the end of games. NFL average is something like 5% when they know the onside kick is coming , this is a video game you can set it higher but with a range of say 2-15% certainly not more or less than that. Rinse and repeat for end of game.

(4) Allow blocks but within reason. If you don't even the check 85% of the time that'll keep it from going crazy even on mismatched games.
On Punts make the ER1, ER2, and DL3 the only "live" blockers on punts and LB2,Fl1, and FL2 on Field Goals and make it so they basically have to win 3 consecutive rolls:
A. Snap Reaction versus either Punter/Kicker Snap Reaction. If the blocker loses the issue is over
B. Blocking interaction roll vs. Assigned blocker so ER1 vs. SB1 etc. Again if its lost progression is over
C. Quickness & Sprint + Dive&Vertical vs. Punter/Kicker Wind-Up Mechanics. If the Quickness/Sprint wins but the dive/vertical does not the punt/kick is rushed reducing power and accuracy by 1/3rd - if both are wins the ball is blocked randomly sending the ball backwards.

(5) Allow Shanked Punts - Not really sure why we don't have this officially but Run Punt consistency and windup mechanics for shank percentage reducing power by 1/2 and sending the ball off the side of the foot out of bounds. If your only running it on 15% of the punts the average should come out right anyway.


(6) Enable Limited Fakes. You really only need to diagram/test 3 (that'll lesson the workload)
Punt Fake Run - Direct Snap to the PP slot player runs a sweep
Punt Fake Pass - PP and SB2 run sideline routes, SE2 runs a fly - punter attempts a pass
FG Fake Pass - UB1&UB2 and TE1 & TE2 basically all run overload right variant, PH attempts to throw a pass

You can drop down box the Offensive Play Tactics to display fakes, all some , or run all. If you only run the check on 15% of the punts/FG's it wont turn it into every 4th down is a fake but just where it makes sense down/distance/game position wise.

(7) Add logical Special Teams SA's.
Long Snapper (Eligible C, G, OT, FB, LB) - Provides a bonus to kicker/punter snap reaction by getting the ball back quickly, in the right spot and with high velocity. [Passive skill] with bonus increasing per bronze,silver,gold.

Holder (Eligible QB,P) - This player knows just how his kicker wants the ball and gets it down quickly to that position, provides bonuses to Wind Up Mechanics and kick accuracy. [Passive]

Emmy Award Winner (Eligible K, P) This player sells the fake well, walking calmly onto the field, setting up the spot of the kick, and carrying through with the motion of the snap , causes lower awareness / slower reaction time on defense. [Passive]

Cold Weather Kicker (Eligible K,P) Reduces penalties for accuracy in cold inclement weather. [Passive - could be loaded pregame]

Judge the wind (Eligible K) Reduces Penalties for kick accuracy due to high wind [Passive - could be loaded pregame]

Former QB (Eligible P) This punter used to be a High School/College QB bonuses to pass power,accuracy and technique when running passing fakes [Passive could be loaded pregame]

Consistent Mechanics (Eligible P) This punter seldom shanks it - reduces shanks 20, 40 75% based on level. [Active roll against shank]

Layout (Eligible, LB,SS,FS,CB) Powered by Defensive Consistency, when playing ER1,ER2, LB1 or LB3 this player lays out well to block a kick with precise timing providing a bonus to dive rating and resulting in a block if in position [Active]

Onside Specialist - (Eligible K) This kicker has put significant craft time into onside kicking provides positional bonus to onside kicking score again Gold should cap out at 15% all factors and scores considered.

(8) Then you can buff kicking accuracy / power no issue. Basically at that point they can choose a little more accuracy versus higher block chance or less well run fakes.