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utvols
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Which has a biggest effect, more power, Best bang for buck, best investment?

Vet points
SA points
% EQ piece
Attribute points
 
Kenshinzen
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whatever has more effect in SAs and makes them fire often. I think % AEQ but will let anyone more wise than me answer that.
 
RyanCane26
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Attribute points. If you have a terrible base build none of the others matter.
 
utvols
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Originally posted by RyanCane26
Attribute points. If you have a terrible base build none of the others matter.

Agreed. Absolutely, a garbage build can’t be salvaged with 10 pieces of EQ. But would it be more effective to go with 2 EQ and put the extra training pts. into base build attribs?

I guess I should take attribs out and say btwn the “bonuses”, which is most effective for the “price”. Would you rather have a 15% piece or a 15 VA for example? Or 10 in SAs over a Maxed VA or EQ. What actually has the most power to influence individual performance?

 
FatLoad
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Why not have it all?

Learn how to build and you can work up your attribute points significantly compared to a less knowledgeable builder. This is probably the most important but must be combined with the other elements.

You get a relatively fixed amount of veteran points. Go for all of them. Ignoring and not applying them would be a waste.

Every build is different but at some point you need at least some Special Abilities. Spending points here would probably better than spending an extra 10 points to bring an attribute up from approximately 89 to 90. Of course it depends on the build which SA's would have any value.

% Equip is good, but it depends on the build and which choices you make. Probably belongs on most builds.

Go for all of them. A minor tweak hear and there won't make a ton of difference, but learn to maximize all of them.
 
reddogrw
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Originally posted by utvols

Agreed. Absolutely, a garbage build can’t be salvaged with 10 pieces of EQ. But would it be more effective to go with 2 EQ and put the extra training pts. into base build attribs?

I guess I should take attribs out and say btwn the “bonuses”, which is most effective for the “price”. Would you rather have a 15% piece or a 15 VA for example? Or 10 in SAs over a Maxed VA or EQ. What actually has the most power to influence individual performance?



2 AE dots suck

you can get 3 AE dots easily - usually the questions are between 3 or 4 AE

% AE is the most powerful in the game - there's a reason Bort limited the effects of it as it was too powerful at one time

also, getting VA's has nothing to do with offsetting equipment or attributes
Edited by reddogrw on Nov 7, 2020 07:37:59
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by utvols
Which has a biggest effect, more power, Best bang for buck, best investment?

Vet points
SA points
% EQ piece
Attribute points


first, agreed that attributes are best by a lot. It's why the attribute VAs got nerfed into oblivion, and are still the best options available in many cases.

after that... IMO, depends on how focused of a build you're looking at

Like o-line is a Ldo example...

All they have to do is block. So you could probably go with a 2 AEQ build for that. 15%, 15% and the add your CEQ to go over 25% hold block. Kickers and Punters don't get % gear, I guess they could probably make it work.

Outside of that, it's not really viable. Even QBs have PQ and PD. Defense, it's approximately impossible. Even the most simple d-line builds need Break Block and Make Tackle %.

Not to mention the process is harder, you basically have to avoid getting BTs on purpose, or waste them as fast as they come in at the start.

Vet points are very position biased. There's some positions and builds that don't get enough VPs, and some that there's not enough good VAs to support the build.

SAs always get lost in the sauce. They're all over the place. Some are amazing (try a power HB without Power Thru) some are crap ( Blitz?) and some are mostly immeasurable because they're intermingled with attributes.

 
reddogrw
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
first, agreed that attributes are best by a lot. It's why the attribute VAs got nerfed into oblivion, and are still the best options available in many cases.

after that... IMO, depends on how focused of a build you're looking at

Like o-line is a Ldo example...

All they have to do is block. So you could probably go with a 2 AEQ build for that. 15%, 15% and the add your CEQ to go over 25% hold block. Kickers and Punters don't get % gear, I guess they could probably make it work.

Outside of that, it's not really viable. Even QBs have PQ and PD. Defense, it's approximately impossible. Even the most simple d-line builds need Break Block and Make Tackle %.

Not to mention the process is harder, you basically have to avoid getting BTs on purpose, or waste them as fast as they come in at the start.

Vet points are very position biased. There's some positions and builds that don't get enough VPs, and some that there's not enough good VAs to support the build.

SAs always get lost in the sauce. They're all over the place. Some are amazing (try a power HB without Power Thru) some are crap ( Blitz?) and some are mostly immeasurable because they're intermingled with attributes.



example?
 
ProfessionalKop
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0 positions should have 2 AEQ. Never give that advice. Minimum 3 pieces at all positions.
Edited by ProfessionalKop on Nov 7, 2020 15:55:12
 
Jeff Williams
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Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
0 positions should have 2 AEQ. Never give that advice. Minimum 3 pieces at all positions.


I agree with that. First of all, you want those extra EQ points on your main attribute, strength if its an O-Lineman. Then you might like to have an AEQ for the SA at the end of the tree to save that heavy SP cost and if you go 4 AEQ you can still have three +5% HB AEQ plus the CEQ HB% bonus in addition to one SA piece. With 4 AEQ you can still get an offensive lineman plenty good attributes if you train and use SP caps right.
 
Jeff Williams
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Vet points only come into play in terms of 'trading' them for xp when it comes to boosting early in some seasons to get more VXP at the cost of some XP. I think its worth it. Others disagree. Honestly all this stuff is more about the specifics of how you want the player to be. If the build is right, any of these variations can be successful. If the build is wrong, nothing will change change that. The real "bang for the buck" is not about choosing between these, its about knowing the quirks of the player building system to get the most of all these things in the right places as efficiently as possible.
 
utvols
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Lots of great info/opinion. I sucked at wording the initial cornfusing question, I should’ve just stayed with choices of %piece and SAs since VAs are fixed and can’t really be shifted, stupid me. And training plan plays a part b/c of the choice to go with more SPs/less BTs thru more intense training, or whether to go with more BTs for more/better EQ (which also counts as extra SPs due to the +attrib points)I guess what I’m trying to figure is whether it’s better to spend more SPs on SAs, or train more for BTs for % stuff. Clear as mud yet? Are % pieces more powerful than SAs.
Example would be is which is most effective say for an OL, putting resources into SA Run Block or go with extra % hold block.
TIA!
Edited by utvols on Nov 7, 2020 21:30:41
Edited by utvols on Nov 7, 2020 21:27:17
 
reddogrw
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Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Vet points only come into play in terms of 'trading' them for xp when it comes to boosting early in some seasons to get more VXP at the cost of some XP. I think its worth it. Others disagree. Honestly all this stuff is more about the specifics of how you want the player to be. If the build is right, any of these variations can be successful. If the build is wrong, nothing will change change that. The real "bang for the buck" is not about choosing between these, its about knowing the quirks of the player building system to get the most of all these things in the right places as efficiently as possible.


everyone ends at the same level - you don't "lose" XP, you just get it later

you lose slight training gains - that's it
 
Kenshinzen
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Originally posted by utvols

Example would be is which is most effective say for an OL, putting resources into SA Run Block or go with extra % hold block.


% AEQ helps every SA to work better & quicker. A WR with 3 HF and 21% fake is better than someone with 8 HF & 15% fake (same attribute & VAs) imo.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Math. It's really that simple. Being able to figure out if the +3 on your next AEQ purchase is worth what you might lose in training. 3 or 4 AEQ always comes down to that question. Building AEQ takes BT's... BT's take training and the more BT's you need, sooner you must switch from Multi-training to Light Training. That switch costs you training gains which, in turn, gives you less gains in your attribute. If you lose 4 gains to gain +3 in your AEQ then you're making a mistake somewhere. I end up with 3 or 4 AEQ every time but it's all based on math as to which I end up with and the math usually is tied to just how successful I was as shopping for AEQ.

As for this question...

Originally posted by utvols
Lots of great info/opinion. I sucked at wording the initial cornfusing question, I should’ve just stayed with choices of %piece and SAs since VAs are fixed and can’t really be shifted, stupid me. And training plan plays a part b/c of the choice to go with more SPs/less BTs thru more intense training, or whether to go with more BTs for more/better EQ (which also counts as extra SPs due to the +attrib points)I guess what I’m trying to figure is whether it’s better to spend more SPs on SAs, or train more for BTs for % stuff. Clear as mud yet? Are % pieces more powerful than SAs.
Example would be is which is most effective say for an OL, putting resources into SA Run Block or go with extra % hold block.
TIA!


It really depends on the dot you're building and their SA tree. Consider that raising the last two SA's in any tree costs you a LOT of SP's... Sp's that could be better used in attributes. Your example of an O-lineman is one where I would ALWAYS get the 5% HB piece and never get the Run Block SA. Why? Because the Run Block SA is the first SA in the tree and therefore the easiest (and cheapest) to raise up with SP's. Pancake however is the LAST SA in the tree and is a "Preferred SA"... and also costs a buttload of SP's to raise up. IF... if I really wanted my O-lineman to end up with 10 in Pancake then I save a LOT of SP's by getting that SA as the bonus part of one of my AEQ pieces. Doing that automatically gives me a 7 in Pancake (+6 AEQ and +1 CEQ) before I put a single SP into it... if I put any at all.
 
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