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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Are there serious In-Game penalties to playing Dots Out of Position?
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DIphoeniX
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and if yes, is it a general penalty/hit to attributes (where you get the same penalty as long as the dot is out of position) or depends on how "out of position" the dot is (eg. a WR playing as TE or a RB playing as WR versus a NT playing as CB or QB playing as DE etc.)

obviously no one would likely do the last two scenarios but I just use them to show the other end of the spectrum, where a dot is REALLY out of position. obviously his attributes will hurt him (A NT wont have the speed/agility to stay with a WR any way and would get burnt often but does he take EVEN FURTHER hit to attributes when playing out of position more than the typical attribute mismatch of playing a position that requires a totally different skill set?)
 
Kenshinzen
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Depends. C playing as G or WR playing TE or TE playing WR has minor penalty as Bort said.

Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by JBStar23


ok but one question for my cap 30 casual i already have a center is there any penalty for playing a center at guard?


Minor penalty, not much.
Edited by Kenshinzen on Aug 19, 2020 01:39:06
 
Kenshinzen
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You'll find a lot of answers here: https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3938152
Edited by Kenshinzen on Aug 19, 2020 01:40:17
 
Theo Wizzago
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Basically the farther away from a dot's 'compatible position', the more the penalty. Taking the 'Center' conversation, a Center playing Guard is the lowest penalty applied. If the Center plays Tackle, then there's a slightly greater penalty. If he moves to BTE then there's even a bit more penalty. If you put the Center in at FB there's a much bigger penalty. If you put the Center in at DT then there's an even larger penalty.
The ONLY place where OOP does NOT apply is on ST's.
 
sunder B
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

The ONLY place where OOP does NOT apply is on ST's.

Was this ever confirmed specifically to a Long Snapper? I see so many out there making 2 way STOP's out of a C seemingly to be used as a LS. Anecdotally, I have noticed that similarly built STOP's that were not centers always seemed to be a little slower than the C's when put at LS.
Edited by sunder B on Aug 19, 2020 14:29:52
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by sunder B

Was this ever confirmed specifically to a Long Snapper? I see so many out there making 2 way STOP's out of a C seemingly to be used as a LS. Anecdotally, I have noticed that similarly built STOP's that were not centers always seemed to be a little slower than the C's when put at LS.


I suppose it's out there somewhere but I've seen just about everything at the LS slot without any seemingly damage to it's abilities. Now, personally, I use either a Center or a STOP center and I prefer a real Center because when kicking FG's and XP's you don't want failure in blockage up the middle. Maybe I'm wrong... but I've never had a FG blocked or XP blocked.
I don't think using a DT or DE at Long Snapper makes it 'less effective'... in fatc I wish they (GLB) would've let us be that specific in the depth chart. I would put a DE, DT, LB, or some such a LS on punts... would give me an extra 'defensive dot' on the field instead of a Center. But it's choose your poison. As a 'OC' I'm thinking I'm kicking more FG's and XP's than punts.

Why I'm 99.9% sure there are no OOP penalties on St's is because when you set up ST's you're not >>>really<<< going to put O-linemen in the Guard and Tackle slots for punts... are you? I mean... that's inviting TD returns, IMHO. So I'm pretty sure you can put any dot at any position on ST's without loss of skills. Just don't get silly and put the LB in as a kicker.
 
bigtisme
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
If you put the Center in at FB there's a much bigger penalty. If you put the Center in at DT then there's an even larger penalty.


Not to split hairs here because no one is playing a center at FB or DT.....but I'm not 100% sure this is actually correct. Way way back in like season 1 we talked about 2 way players because the OOP for DB to WR or DL or OL was not that big.

Not that it truly matters because we aren't playing those dots out of position anyway.
 
Dr. E
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Only one abort ever gave up is the smallest 5%.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by bigtisme
Not to split hairs here because no one is playing a center at FB or DT.....but I'm not 100% sure this is actually correct. Way way back in like season 1 we talked about 2 way players because the OOP for DB to WR or DL or OL was not that big.

Not that it truly matters because we aren't playing those dots out of position anyway.


Sorry. Was just tossing things out to show the penalty variances. Dr.E. posted what I have written down as well... that the lowest (smallest) penalty is 5%. each position removed from that "compatible position" increases the penalty. I also seem to remember discussion about there being a MAX penalty as well but I don't have that in my notes. Besides... 5% penalty is about all you really wanna stomach if you want to, or have to, play a dot OOP.
 
TheBear
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Originally posted by bigtisme
Not to split hairs here because no one is playing a center at FB or DT.....but I'm not 100% sure this is actually correct. Way way back in like season 1 we talked about 2 way players because the OOP for DB to WR or DL or OL was not that big.

Not that it truly matters because we aren't playing those dots out of position anyway.


I seem to remember Bort adding or boosting the OOP because teams were using linemen at WR and bulldozing down the field.
 
utvols
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Originally posted by sunder B

Was this ever confirmed specifically to a Long Snapper? I see so many out there making 2 way STOP's out of a C seemingly to be used as a LS. Anecdotally, I have noticed that similarly built STOP's that were not centers always seemed to be a little slower than the C's when put at LS.

The LS is a defender/tackler on punts. I have noticed a pretty significant penalty at LS when using a DE or other D player to optimize tackling. This is an anecdotal opinion however, I have nothing documented, just observation. When I use a dual C STOP, I notice better speed at least, but hard tackling can be iffy depending on build.
There is also a trick to use a Dual C stop or a D player at LS To tackle on punts and use a dedicated hardcore blocker At C on XPs & FGs, but Iím not talking, unless I get lots of free beer.
Edited by utvols on Aug 20, 2020 19:36:37
 
Theo Wizzago
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I hear ya. Dual threat STOP C is best but few are available... fewer still good enough. As I posted above... I really wished GLB braintrust had given more thought to ST's. The stat keeping is a joke (for ST's), we should be able to put a pure Defender in at LS on Punts if we want to without needing to remove a "normal" center for FG tries and XP attempts, and there's no way any dot that plays one snap on ST's should ever win the ST MVP award (yes... it's happened before).
 
sunder B
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Originally posted by utvols

There is also a trick to use a Dual C stop or a D player at LS To tackle on punts and use a dedicated hardcore blocker At C on XPs & FGs, but Iím not talking, unless I get lots of free beer.


I would assume this is energy and/or depth chart based? I feel dumb after 80 seasons not knowing something like this, but now that you mention it, I have some ideas as to how it could work that I now will have to test.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Might have to do with how you set the Depth Chart for ST's. Mind you I've never tried it but if you listed the D-Player at the top of the LS slot... then followed with a normal Center behind him... and then made sure that the D-Player in the LS slot was the ONLY starter (wherever) on all XP's and FG's (I would guess an outside position)... then because he's the starter on those formations in a different slot... then the Center listed as #2 on the LS depth chart would come in and play the LS position.

Mind you this is just an educated guess. I've never tried it before. Might start trying it now.
 
sunder B
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Might have to do with how you set the Depth Chart for ST's. Mind you I've never tried it but if you listed the D-Player at the top of the LS slot... then followed with a normal Center behind him... and then made sure that the D-Player in the LS slot was the ONLY starter (wherever) on all XP's and FG's (I would guess an outside position)... then because he's the starter on those formations in a different slot... then the Center listed as #2 on the LS depth chart would come in and play the LS position.

Mind you this is just an educated guess. I've never tried it before. Might start trying it now.


This was my assumption as well, and I tested it in a couple scrims this morning.

I tried putting the D center as the only place holder on the FG team, and then put a regular center as a backup LS. It worked, but not 100%. I ran 2 scrims, and it worked in 11 of 14 of the FG/XP attempts. The ones it did not work, the sim put our QB at PH even though he isn't on the chart anywhere.
 
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