Warrior General Games

What is the highest vision total on a defender in all of current world league?
What is the highest vision total on a historically successful defender in world league?
What is the slowest non-linemen defender currently in world league?
What is the slowest non-linemen historically successful defender in world league?

My questions are sort of me picking at the idea that it seems World League is filled with a bunch of 150 speed dots, and I'm curious if anyone has ever done even remotely well questioning that seemingly concrete assumption that 150 speed is the only way to build a defender... and if so, are they willing to share how... and if not, is there any way to provide me with a link to that dot (hopefully with an open build) so that I can analyze the play of it?

I don't have the patience to build for 2 years to test how much some of my "less popular" peewee build ideas translate into later leagues, but I'd be curious to see if anyone could provide me with some of these answers so I can make inferences beyond speculation.

150 speed is incorrect - more like 160+ speed plus VA's

Cornerbacks seem to have mid 90's vision with VA's

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4721056 - I see this CB has the MVP equipment from last season and his build is open

KOB's CB's won MVP's the season before so you could also ask him about CB's that have had success

I would think being in the Sea Wasp organization you have a WL team that you could look at the builds of as well

not sure about D-Line - pass rushers have way more speed than run stoppers so you will need to be more specific and again, I would think you should be able to see Sea Wasp builds if you ask nice

Strength LBers can be sub 150 but pretty much everyone else in the back 7 should have 150 minimum

Okay, neither of you are catching the point... I'm well aware of how everyone "feels" about it, peewee has been around for nearly as long as world league and people "feel" the same way about the builds I do there.

I wasn't asking for you guys to spout off the already assumed long list of literature that dictates you "must" have 160 speed, I was asking for someone to provide me some actual research material of anyone who managed to make it this far in their build questioning that "fact."

Or at least the closest thing to it, I don't need evidence of a 160 speed guy doing well, I want to see evidence of the 130 speed guy doing terrible, so I can analyze that.

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
Okay, neither of you are catching the point... I'm well aware of how everyone "feels" about it, peewee has been around for nearly as long as world league and people "feel" the same way about the builds I do there.

I wasn't asking for you guys to spout off the already assumed long list of literature that dictates you "must" have 160 speed, I was asking for someone to provide me some actual research material of anyone who managed to make it this far in their build questioning that "fact."

Or at least the closest thing to it, I don't need evidence of a 160 speed guy doing well, I want to see evidence of the 130 speed guy doing terrible, so I can analyze that.


as Ryan mentioned, other than HHLB's, you won't see back end defensive players less than 150 (and 150 isn't enough tbh) - they get toasted - can't show you evidence of it because long ago it didn't work and people don't do it

the vision question was answered - cover defenders are over 90 with VA's, some even higher - but not at the expense of lower speed

with that kind of vision, 95+ agility and 160 speed and the correct rest of the build cover defenders can cover and pick off passes

My question wasn't answered, because I already knew what the status quo was, I'm looking for anyone who happens to remember a recent or not so recent "experiment" of a slower player, or simply a higher vision player that attempted to challenge that status quo and failed...

or if we are all still blindly following some made-up assumption of slower players, which if it has any basis at all; the basis was probably some poorly built dots in general, or dots with some other intention besides using vision/agility increases to overcome lower speeds.

I think, SB, the answer to your overall query is that you probably CAN find an occasional 'non standard' build in WL but they are very rare and also you must have a OC and/or DC and/or ST coach that knows exactly how to use that dot to their advantage.

The difference between a 'GREAT" WL build and a "Good" WL build are generally small. The biggest difference you see isn't in the builds themselves but how they're used by the coordinators. That's what generates the 'oh wow!' stats that most builders seek. I had a couple of WL dots... I wouldn't call them "The Best Ever"... just real good dots that appealed to the eyes of the team managers and coaches... who took them and used them very well.

As for slow vs fast, you have to have great speed (on defense and ST's) or you'll get burned like a naked white guy in the sahara desert in the summer. Once they get past the last defender... goodbye. If you don't have enough speed to catch them then no amount of SA's or VA's will save you. I know because I built my returners based on that need for speed. I've backed off that just a little but even my current returner has a conglomerate (EQ and VA's and other bonuses) speed over 160.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I think, SB, the answer to your overall query is that you probably CAN find an occasional 'non standard' build in WL but they are very rare and also you must have a OC and/or DC and/or ST coach that knows exactly how to use that dot to their advantage.

The difference between a 'GREAT" WL build and a "Good" WL build are generally small. The biggest difference you see isn't in the builds themselves but how they're used by the coordinators. That's what generates the 'oh wow!' stats that most builders seek. I had a couple of WL dots... I wouldn't call them "The Best Ever"... just real good dots that appealed to the eyes of the team managers and coaches... who took them and used them very well.

As for slow vs fast, you have to have great speed (on defense and ST's) or you'll get burned like a naked white guy in the sahara desert in the summer. Once they get past the last defender... goodbye. If you don't have enough speed to catch them then no amount of SA's or VA's will save you. I know because I built my returners based on that need for speed. I've backed off that just a little but even my current returner has a conglomerate (EQ and VA's and other bonuses) speed over 160.

the other item to note is that unlike peewee, these dots have agility, vision, as well as avoid fake % AE, SV SA's, etc., so it isn't like peewee where really high speed with no vision or agility or anything else - to assume this is remotely transferable doesn't work

Again, I understand that you guys all blindly follow this logic, but I'm not asking for more proof that you guys blindly followed the logic, I'm looking for real evidence.

My players all also lack the speed to catch up to people, once behind the defense the touchdown is assured, but considering the players are drastically more capable of actually playing defense (rather than standing still for 5 seconds trying to "diagnose" the play) that is a more than willing sacrifice... the idea that the world league collective is pumping 160 points into an attribute blindly based off the idea of "chasing someone down" is making me laugh out loud.

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
Again, I understand that you guys all blindly follow this logic, but I'm not asking for more proof that you guys blindly followed the logic, I'm looking for real evidence.

My players all also lack the speed to catch up to people, once behind the defense the touchdown is assured, but considering the players are drastically more capable of actually playing defense (rather than standing still for 5 seconds trying to "diagnose" the play) that is a more than willing sacrifice... the idea that the world league collective is pumping 160 points into an attribute blindly based off the idea of "chasing someone down" is making me laugh out loud.

it's more than chasing them down - it's being able to stay with them, like this example

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3016767&pbp_id=1267937

maybe you should watch some replays - TSW is in WL so you have a lot you can check out

You show me a play of someone never coming even close to top speed, I have no reason to believe that my ideal dot would not be perfectly capable of that same defense, if not more capable.

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
You show me a play of someone never coming even close to top speed, I have no reason to believe that my ideal dot would not be perfectly capable of that same defense, if not more capable.

then build that way and dominate WL

Originally posted by reddogrw

I would think being in the Sea Wasp organization you have a WL team that you could look at the builds of as well





He is NOT in the Sea Wasps Org as he crapped out on us to many times.

He just hasn't changed his avatar for some reason.

I think after 80 seasons of data, the evidence suggests what it takes to get to WL and 130 speed secondary players is not in said formula.

I mean if you want to give it a shot then go ahead, but good luck finding a dcoord to give you a shot.

Count-questions, if you are only going to 130 speed or lower, what else will your dot bring to the table???

I venture to guess i may have the wildest WL dot and I asked the owner to replace him once we got to WL but he wants to ride it out - I know teams have gone w/ CPU punter before, but has anybody had a dot do both? Occasionally will boot a 50+ yard punt, but he's usually in the 30-35 range - mostly fair catches though....but hes also not great at 50+ FGs

K/P - https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4732674