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Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Has bort ever defined publicly what a "dump pass" is?
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sunder B
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Having a discussion with another agent on the QB setting of allowing for dump passes to the HB or FB. It got me to thinking if dump passes were ever specifically identified or defined by Bort anywhere?

We were overlooking a game in which the QB's tactics were set to "never" dump pass to HB/FB, yet there were 8 targets to the HB's in the game.

I looked at the replays and I am not sure I would consider any of them dump passes as the HB's ran regular routes on all of them. Now they were not the primary target in any of the plays, but on the play trees these are regular routes

Now that being said, I don't know if I can identify a situation in which a pass was to the HB/FB in which they did not run a route.

So which is it?


 
splitter24
Bacon
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Bort dumped GLB.
 
ProfessionalKop
Gangstalicious
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Originally posted by splitter24
Bort dumped GLB.


 
Monkey Boy
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Originally posted by splitter24
Bort dumped GLB.


and took a pass at making the game great.
 
TheBear
Roll Tide
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Originally posted by splitter24
Bort dumped GLB.


 
utvols
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Originally posted by TheBear
Originally posted by splitter24

Bort dumped GLB.



 
Bluesman
bluest blues
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Originally posted by splitter24
Bort dumped GLB.


Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
Originally posted by splitter24

Bort dumped GLB.




Originally posted by TheBear
Originally posted by splitter24

Bort dumped GLB.




Originally posted by utvols
Originally posted by TheBear

Originally posted by splitter24


Bort dumped GLB.





 
Daedalus
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Originally posted by Monkey Boy
and took a pass at making the game great.


 
PaqMarq11
makes sense
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whenever you get offered to take a dump but take a pass or ask for a rain check
 
BigRatUno
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I had a hard time passing this morning's dump.
I think I need to eat more fiber.

As to the thread question, I don't believe anyone knows.
 
Norse
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Personally, I love Bort.
 
Novus
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Originally posted by sunder B
Having a discussion with another agent on the QB setting of allowing for dump passes to the HB or FB. It got me to thinking if dump passes were ever specifically identified or defined by Bort anywhere?

We were overlooking a game in which the QB's tactics were set to "never" dump pass to HB/FB, yet there were 8 targets to the HB's in the game.

I looked at the replays and I am not sure I would consider any of them dump passes as the HB's ran regular routes on all of them. Now they were not the primary target in any of the plays, but on the play trees these are regular routes

Now that being said, I don't know if I can identify a situation in which a pass was to the HB/FB in which they did not run a route.

So which is it?


In the past, for teams where I've been running the offense, I've usually had our QB set to be able to throw dump passes. There have been times when I've set the pass progression for a particular play to only look at WRs and TEs, and if we called that play and the QB found himself under pressure from a blitz, he'd throw to the HB or FB even though they weren't in any of the progression slots.

So, I would say that a "dump pass" is any pass where the QB is hurried, interrupts his passing progression, and throws to an HB or FB immediately.

However, this is GLB, the game where Bort originally programmed kickoffs to land at the 40 and bounce another 30 yards to the returner. I've seen him make some... shall we say questionable definitions of terms before. I think it's reasonable to assume I'm correct, but it's equally reasonable to assume Bort has a completely different definition -- or perhaps none at all, and "dump pass" simply means ANY pass to an HB or FB.

I'd be curious to know if he ever addressed this in a Q&A, but I honestly don't remember.
 
Theo Wizzago
Coyote
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Originally posted by sunder B
Having a discussion with another agent on the QB setting of allowing for dump passes to the HB or FB. It got me to thinking if dump passes were ever specifically identified or defined by Bort anywhere?

We were overlooking a game in which the QB's tactics were set to "never" dump pass to HB/FB, yet there were 8 targets to the HB's in the game.

I looked at the replays and I am not sure I would consider any of them dump passes as the HB's ran regular routes on all of them. Now they were not the primary target in any of the plays, but on the play trees these are regular routes

Now that being said, I don't know if I can identify a situation in which a pass was to the HB/FB in which they did not run a route.

So which is it?




Kinda 2 questions here. #1 is what Bort defines as a 'Dump Pass' and what actually IS a 'dump pass'.
As for what Bort calls it, I have no fookin idea.
As for the rest of the answers to your queries, to the best of my knowledge a QB will never throw to a reciever that either is not running a route or is in his progressions. The 1st part of that I'm 99.9% sure that's true. Back when I scouted, one of the things I did regularly was scout our own team games... especially when asked to by the OC or DC. In those games I would watch each replay and make notes and I never saw a pass to anyone that wasn't running a route. That said... I'm not quite as sure that a QB wouldn't throw to a receiver that WAS running a route but was NOT in the progressions. I've never seen that happen... but that doesn't mean it hasn't.
TBH, IMO, a 'dump pass' is when the receiver runs a route that stops at, or near, the LOS and holds position. Generally that's a route that you have pegged last in your 'progressions' because it seems a waste of time with little chance for any gain. Then... when the QB feels 'threatened' he 'skips' all progressions and throws to that 'nearest receiver' in the progressions tree (or throws it away). To me, that's what it means to 'dump pass' when you select it from the QB's tactics.

 
SharpyDave
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Originally posted by splitter24
Bort dumped GLB.


 
Novus
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
...to the best of my knowledge a QB will never throw to a reciever that either is not running a route or is in his progressions.


Partially incorrect.

You ARE correct about players who are not running a route. If a TE, HB or FB stays back to block on a passing play, the QB will NEVER throw to them.

But for players who ARE running a route, even if they're not in any of the progression slots, the QB CAN throw to them. It's not as likely to happen, but it's still possible. For example, if WR2 is not in any of the progression slots but is still running a route, and if the defense blows their coverage and leaves him completely open, the WR2 will shout "I'M OPEN" and the QB has a chance to see him and throw to him, though (and this is the part I'm not 100% sure on myself) he'll need to pass a Vision check to notice that the WR2 is open and a Confidence check to have the guts to break out of his progression and pull the trigger.

Also, as I mentioned in my other post above, if a QB has their tactics set to allow Dump Passes and gets pressured by a blitz, the QB can throw to an HB or FB even if they're not in any of the progression slots.

I've seen multiple examples of both. They're not particularly common occurrences, as QBs generally stick to their progressions, but passes to route-running dots that are not in the progression slots do happen.
 
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