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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > hang time SA vs distance/hang time slider
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Guppy, Inc
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headline was supposed to be SA not VA

to finish off one of my punters, i added a bunch of hang time SA since I was happy with his distance. since then, i've noticed the distance is no where near as good, and the punts just hang up there. the slider is set to 100% distance. has anyone else actually noticed this before? looking for actually experience or quotes from bort, and not guessing. i have plenty of games to watch to make my own guesses...lol.
Edited by .spider. on Nov 15, 2019 08:53:33
Edited by Guppy, Inc on Nov 14, 2019 15:03:28
 
Theo Wizzago
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Can I ask if you've noted from WHERE on the field each punt attempt happens? I have noticed that if we're punting from the 50 yard line that my punts are shorter and hangtime longer... as opposed to punting from our own 30 yard line where the punts are much longer and the hangtime maybe not as much. I do not know for sure but have always suspected other SA's and VA's dealing with the execution of coffin corner punts might interfere with Hangtime/distance. TBH, I've never stopwatched the hangtime of a punt. It just seems that the shorter punts stay in the air longer. That's all I can add to this.
 
sunder B
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No actual experience, just trying to apply some common sense. I think of a punt as a bell curve. The higher you kick it, the shorter it will go as the peak of the bell will be stretched out? Maybe there is such a thing as too much hang time?

Again, no experience, but may be worth some experimentation.
 
.spider.
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Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
headline was supposed to be SA not VA

.

Got ya bro...

Can you divulge on "bunch of hang time"


are we talking 10, 20, 30?
Edited by .spider. on Nov 15, 2019 08:55:19
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by sunder B
No actual experience, just trying to apply some common sense. I think of a punt as a bell curve. The higher you kick it, the shorter it will go as the peak of the bell will be stretched out? Maybe there is such a thing as too much hang time?

Again, no experience, but may be worth some experimentation.


yeah, thats what i'm thinking it looks like too. however, we already have a hang time slider, so if the hang time SA overrides that, then the SA becomes counterproductive. i had hoped that if I was getting 60 yard punts that were just a little "flat" that adding hang time SA would make them hang up there just a little longer so the coverage team had more time to get there. i was getting a lot of 60 and 70 yard punts before, but now those have gone waaay down, given the opportunity for a long punt, since I took hang time from 10 to 17. i really wasnt expecting to have so many short/high punts. i thought the SA would leave the distance while increasing air time. If the SA overrides the slider, then the SA becomes worthless.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Can I ask if you've noted from WHERE on the field each punt attempt happens? I have noticed that if we're punting from the 50 yard line that my punts are shorter and hangtime longer... as opposed to punting from our own 30 yard line where the punts are much longer and the hangtime maybe not as much. I do not know for sure but have always suspected other SA's and VA's dealing with the execution of coffin corner punts might interfere with Hangtime/distance. TBH, I've never stopwatched the hangtime of a punt. It just seems that the shorter punts stay in the air longer. That's all I can add to this.


only talking about the ones where a punter could let it rip. once the code determines the punter can attempt a CC, thats a whole different calculation. i rate each PUNT as an individual play, and grade it it on how well it did in that particular situation. so a 45 yard punt to the 1 is great, but a 45 yarder from your own 20 completely sucks.

Originally posted by .spider.

Got ya bro...
Can you divulge on "bunch of hang time"
are we talking 10, 20, 30?


went from 10 to 17 with the final boosts/AEQ. noticed an immediate distance reduction and the punts hanging up there a looong time. i wish the I had just left the builds at L73, because they were perfect there, but L73 to L79 seems to have wrecked them, at least 1 of them, as hang time is now overwhelmingly overridden distance on almost every punt. i'm getting tempted to swap out a hang time AEQ for a plain old eq, and lose the 6 in hang time even if that means losing the +2 in strength too.
 
.spider.
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Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
went from 10 to 17 with the final boosts/AEQ. noticed an immediate distance reduction and the punts hanging up there a looong time. i wish the I had just left the builds at L73, because they were perfect there, but L73 to L79 seems to have wrecked them, at least 1 of them, as hang time is now overwhelmingly overridden distance on almost every punt. i'm getting tempted to swap out a hang time AEQ for a plain old eq, and lose the 6 in hang time even if that means losing the +2 in strength too.


Yeah, I was wondering if there's a "sweet spot"

I dont think just going from 73-79 with boosts alone would effect it, i mean it would raise your majors all +2, cant believe that would do it....


Maybe 12, or 14 or 16 but NOT 17

Also do the SA's work together and did bumping one up to 17 while the others were at 10, maybe that throws the balance? Maybe if say all of them were 17 that would have helped?
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by .spider.
Yeah, I was wondering if there's a "sweet spot"

I dont think just going from 73-79 with boosts alone would effect it, i mean it would raise your majors all +2, cant believe that would do it....


Maybe 12, or 14 or 16 but NOT 17

Also do the SA's work together and did bumping one up to 17 while the others were at 10, maybe that throws the balance? Maybe if say all of them were 17 that would have helped?


i dont think it was the boosts themselves, but what i did with the SPs from the boosts. i havent looked at today's games yet, but for the season, the SA definitely seems to be overriding the slider. thats just poor design if that is actually what is happening. i know this offseason, i will be experimenting a whole lot swapping around AEQ/EQ
 
TJ Spikes
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For the 10th anniversary GLB update, Bort changed SAs so that diminishing returns on SAs won't kick in until 15, didn't you get that announcement?

Wait maybe that was a false rumor. SAs after 11 or 12 don't do anything...?

DUN DUN DUNNNN

 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
For the 10th anniversary GLB update, Bort changed SAs so that diminishing returns on SAs won't kick in until 15, didn't you get that announcement?

Wait maybe that was a false rumor. SAs after 11 or 12 don't do anything...?

DUN DUN DUNNNN



it's not that SAs over 15 are worthless, it's just that you dont get the same boost for the cost as from the lower number.
 
Theo Wizzago
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^^^ This. Not only do you pay more (in SP's to increase the SA but, also, the bonuses gained are reduced. Much like stacking penalties. After 10 you get less and less bonus that costs more and more to get. Helps keep frankendots off the field.
 
TJ Spikes
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Any other time anyone has 12+ in an SA everyone says it's a waste and has negligible effect.

You're saying you noticed a dramatic effect by jumping to 17.

Maybe 14 is the new 10. Maybe Power Thru 15 + 22% BT > Power Thru 11 + 25% BT

It's a brave new world
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes

Any other time anyone has 12+ in an SA everyone says it's a waste and has negligible effect.

You're saying you noticed a dramatic effect by jumping to 17.

Maybe 14 is the new 10. Maybe Power Thru 15 + 22% BT > Power Thru 11 + 25% BT

It's a brave new world


i think that you are misreading something. if anything, this problem PROVES that going to 17 still had an effect on the player. in this case, it appears that going from 10 to 17 completely overrides the SLIDER that is supposed to determine whether a punter goes for distance or hang time. I dont see how bringing in any other position has any bearing since I'm talking about the SLIDER. are there any other positions that have a slider with a SA that directly contradicts it?

just ran a scrim where i disabled an AEQ with hang time, and the distance immediately went up with only 11 in hang time. going to run a few more games that way. and if there continues to be more distance than hanging punts, it would appear that hang time is a completely useless SA, since i would rather control it via the slider.

 
im317
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this has the potential to change some stuff for P building. do Ps do 3 AEQ now? if so would you just go 2 AEQ both in big boot and cover calm nerves with SP? where would you even put the extra points? maybe go past first cap in speed and have the P play on other STs units?
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by im317
this has the potential to change some stuff for P building. do Ps do 3 AEQ now? if so would you just go 2 AEQ both in big boot and cover calm nerves with SP? where would you even put the extra points? maybe go past first cap in speed and have the P play on other STs units?


i did 4. 3 may be the new normal

i've been looking at some plateau punters with few in hang time, and it does appear that they all rarely hang one up
 
.spider.
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
^^^ This. Not only do you pay more (in SP's to increase the SA but, also, the bonuses gained are reduced. Much like stacking penalties. After 10 you get less and less bonus that costs more and more to get. Helps keep frankendots off the field.


I do think Catch one time said anything over 13-14 is essentially worthless. I usually do 20 in a K or P SA as there's not much else to do with them.
 
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