Warrior General Games

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/486046/1399050

Defenders have more mobility and speed than offensive players in general. This is a 4.37 40 HB getting caught from behind and at an angle by a 4.63 40 SS with the damned same stamina amounts during the play and the HB being way more motivated. No skill activation either.

This is annoying as fug that instead of fixing defensive logic you just give them bonus movement speed.

Just my two cents but your hb makes a cut at about the 35. Now rb lose speed when making cuts the way he did so that would explain it. If they were running up the sideline I might see your point

Originally posted by dredgar
Just my two cents but your hb makes a cut at about the 35. Now rb lose speed when making cuts the way he did so that would explain it. If they were running up the sideline I might see your point

the LB is making the same cut after over pursuing, they accelerate nearly identically but even then with the LB having to angle across part of the field and being behind he loses 0 distance on a 'faster' player while covering more ground.

I agree that this is a play where the HB should have pulled away probably. However, I believe that if any changes are made, the first need to be made to boost defensive pursuit / patching as that is one of the key issues which allows outside runs to go to the house and limit to defensive play calling. Defenders constantly chase the ass of opposing ball carriers instead of pursuing them properly and aiming in front of where the ball carrier is actually running. On top of that, they run unecessarily underneath blocki interactions or run in to them, taking themselves out of the play all together. These are far greater issues than another buff to offensive rushing.

The play that you show still required the defender to "dive" to make the tackle though which was likely the difference. You are looking at a 10 yard window essentially where the difference in 40 times would not be that great. Likely barely enough for the defenders dive to make up the difference.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
I agree that this is a play where the HB should have pulled away probably. However, I believe that if any changes are made, the first need to be made to boost defensive pursuit / patching as that is one of the key issues which allows outside runs to go to the house and limit to defensive play calling. Defenders constantly chase the ass of opposing ball carriers instead of pursuing them properly and aiming in front of where the ball carrier is actually running. On top of that, they run unecessarily underneath blocki interactions or run in to them, taking themselves out of the play all together. These are far greater issues than another buff to offensive rushing.

The play that you show still required the defender to "dive" to make the tackle though which was likely the difference. You are looking at a 10 yard window essentially where the difference in 40 times would not be that great. Likely barely enough for the defenders dive to make up the difference.

My issue isn't that he had to dive, it's that if you go back to when they are running in stride and draw a straight line across the field the distance is still the same as when he gets done crossing and initiates the dive. He's traveling a distance that is around 1.35 times the distance in exactly the same amount of time with a lower 40 time. If he wasn't moving sideways that means he's being boosted to the same speed as the HB, but since he is that means he's being boosted to a MUCH faster speed while not in a straight line upfield. This is a HB with 95 sprint and the speed the LB traveled means his score would have to be higher than the 95 by quite a bit - you see the same kind of speed up when a 75 sprint LB is able to keep pace with a speed HB who is sprinting straight to the sideline while moving himself to the LOS to meet that HB - just outright traveling further distances than faster players and getting there in identical time because it's easier to give the defenders a boost than make pursuit work.

Exactly, let's make sprinting even more of an arms race. Higher sprinting should mean you're impervious to any slightly slower players.

Originally posted by Corndog
Exactly, let's make sprinting even more of an arms race. Higher sprinting should mean you're impervious to any slightly slower players.

Just saying, if a HB makes a slower defender miss and then gets caught from behind - what is the point of an elusive back at all?

This would still be a point of quickness. I know a ton of fast rb that only have 35-40 quickness while a build almost all my lbs with 40-50 quickness.

Originally posted by dredgar
This would still be a point of quickness. I know a ton of fast rb that only have 35-40 quickness while a build almost all my lbs with 40-50 quickness.

HB in the play you watched has 75, so not quite a slouch. Corndog's tone a second ago about removing the boost shows it is there, and a low quickness would reflect itself on a 40 time.

Eh, you're forgetting this game was in snow, and the difference in acceleration isn't great between these two players. Looks like the slight conditioning edge Nun had was enough to make a diving tackle. Almost guaranteed that's a TD in non-snow conditions.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Eh, you're forgetting this game was in snow, and the difference in acceleration isn't great between these two players. Looks like the slight conditioning edge Nun had was enough to make a diving tackle. Almost guaranteed that's a TD in non-snow conditions.

Ya no snow defiantly makes a major difference but you know it’s really easy to make a good 90+speed back now but to make lbers and safeties with 90 speed will leave them lacking in a ton of other areas. So they can’t go over board

Dredgar's 2 points are pretty spot on. I personally won't build a LB/DB/S that don't have 50 quick.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Dredgar's 2 points are pretty spot on. I personally won't build a LB/DB/S that doesn't have 50 quick.

The difference is just too great. My HB is sitting at 75 quick and 95 sprint and he was MUCH slower. If the S had 80/60 (my estimate from combine numbers) he should not have been able to travel 1.35 times the distance in the same amount of time with them having near the same stamina (a difference of 2-3 stamina count when both ended the play with over 30 is moot since your running speed is unaffected until you hit 2 stamina)

Because of these mobility boosts you are much better off going power since people ARE going to get to you no matter how elusive you are. The game is getting same-y as fuck. I've been struggling to find ways to make it better but once the power/speed builds started showing up they did this to nerf them instead of doing something productive, like making footwork/quickness work more into how well you react to being pushed - fug, make quickness effect acceleration all the way to the top so that they are only getting that 100 sprint speed after a 35 yard run up if they have no quickness instead of only having the first 3 steps be slow.

Frankly, with better pursuit more people would find their way to powerbacks as well and help gang tackle.

Instead they Frankenstein in balance, going way overboard and not fixing the heart of issues.

Why fix CB logic when we can just give them an exponential boost to INT? Why fix pursuit logic when we can just boost defensive players speed?

It's just very annoying and half-assed. It's the main reason why I've not renewed any flex - been waiting for them to fucking show they care about this game before I sink any more money into it. It's pretty obvious at this point they just want to put in as little effort as possible to keep the userbase happy until the cash cow dries up and they can shut it down to continue their work on mobile apps.

Originally posted by dredgar
Ya no snow defiantly makes a major difference but you know it’s really easy to make a good 90+speed back now but to make lbers and safeties with 90 speed will leave them lacking in a ton of other areas. So they can’t go over board

Do you think most LBs in the NFL are as fast as most RBs? It's the positional advantage that makes it hard to run around them, with fixed pursuit this wouldn't even be an issue of needing to have LBs run at the same speed as HBs.

I know this is a bit harsh, and I know that fixing logic is not anywhere as easy as saying 'fix logic'

It's just annoying to know that the root cause of all this issue will never be looked at.