Warrior General Games

Now that both of these players have finally retired, I've been meaning to look back a little bit through both careers to compare.

For reference:

Cleveland Brown
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/35272

Yukiko Amagi
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/37047

As far as I know were the only two first generation superstar QB's, and both ended up with pretty stellar careers.
Cleveland spent all nine seasons playing for Air Raid.
Yukiko on the other hand played for Engage With Zorp! (2 seasons), Lost Lounge (2 seasons), and Harrisonburg/Madison Bulldogs (5 seasons).

For fun, I've tallied up their career stats as a comparison and also list their career high and what season it was in brackets. For stuff like hurries/sacks, obviously I am using the lowest value.

Cleveland Brown
QBRTG: 1003.7 (126.7 in Season 7)
ATT: 19,975 (2724 in Season 7)
COMP: 12260 (1767 in Season 7)
YARDS: 157,852 (23,922.5 in Season 7)
CMP%: 61.3% (64.9% in Season 7)
YPA: 7.8 (8.9 in Season 8)
TDS: 1,758 (294 in Season 7)
HRY: 1,174 (64 in Season 6)
SCK: 429 (8 in Season 7)
INTS: 110 (5 in Season 4)

6x O-MVP, 8x Pass-TD Champ (1x 2nd), 8x Pass-YD Champ (1x 2nd), 2x Championships, 1x Ladder (3x 3rd Place, 1x 4th Place, 1x 5th Place)
Build Highlights: 85 Tech, 86 Accuracy, 63 Power, 51 Consist, 80 Pocket Awr, 91 Pass Aware, 57 Cond, 55 Heart, 65 Leadership
3/3/3 SA's

----------------------

Yukiko Amagi
QBRTG: 941.1 (120.2 in Season 10)
ATT: 16,575 (2280 in Season 2)
COMP: 10,075 (1304 in Season 10)
YARDS: 124,407 (17,700 in Season 10)
CMP%: 60.7% (64.1% in Season 10)
YPA: 7.54 (8.7 in Season 10)
TDS: 1,128 (190 in Season 10)
HRY: 1,855 (140 in Season 7)
SCK: 367 (7 in Season 8)
INTS: 96 (3 in Season 7)

4x Pass-TD Champ (4x 2nd Place, 1x 3rd Place), 3x Pass-YDS Champ (4x 2nd Place, 2x 3rd Place), 4x O-MVP, 3x Championships, 1x Ladder (2x 2nd Place, 1x 3rd Place, 2x 4th Place, 1x 5th Place)
Build Highlights: 97 Tech, 90 Accuracy, 50 Power, 84 Consist, 49 Pocket Awr, 90 Pass Aware, 45 Cond, 49 Heart, 60 Leadership
2/2/2/2/2/1/1/1 SA's (lol)

Some things that immediately stand out to me:

- Cleveland's attempts are almost double Yukiko's, playing for the same team for so long that is willing to let you throw is pretty beneficial (tdiddy's fault)
- Season 7 Cleveland was apparently a god. Almost all his career highs are from that season. I don't remember what was up with the sim then.
- Yukiko's best season was probably the last one, a nice way to go out. Interesting that it wasn't the highest attempt season though.
- Yukiko was sacked a bit less but hurried close to twice as much. This is probably chemistry at work from switching teams twice (though IIRC Air Raids o-line also did change) though Cleveland does smoke Yukiko in pocket awareness
- After moving to Harrisonburg's league Yukiko had a really hard time with awards. IIRC Ricky Bobby and even Cleveland a season or two gave a lot of trouble by piling attempts on while tdiddy's running QB stole stats.
- Despite everything they are both still really close on QBR & Completion percentage.


Some of the big build differences that stand out

Cleveland 80 Pocket Awareness to Yukiko's 49
Yukiko's 97 Pass Technique to Cleveland's 85
Yukiko's 84 Consistency to Cleveland's 51(!)

I tried to format the stats a bit better but the forum doesn't like formatting.

Looks like Cleveland benefitted from better WRs tbqh.

This is definitely true for part of it (especially the Lost Lounge era) but I think Hburg's WR's were at the very least on par with Air Raid.

Yukiko had a lot of TD's "stolen" by throwing the ball downfield and Bad Vee Lee (RQB) or a HB finishing off the drive in the red zone. But even still, with some simple math we can say Yukiko got a TD every 14.6 attempts (which doesn't really sound that egregious even though TD's don't work like that).

So, as an experiment, if we gave Yukiko 3,400 attempts to match up with Cleveland, we could estimate an extra 232 TD's which would still put Yukiko well behind Cleveland. Interestingly, applying the same logic to Yards would actually match them up a lot closer (less than 1000 yards apart) which means Cleveland (or I guess really Galithor) was just doing something right in the red zone.

Waaaay more effort than I'd have put into this. Nicely done Laggo

If I had to pick 3 things to explain Cleveland's Season 7 epic results, and the trailing off afterwards I'd say:

1. passing sim nerfs. These were just flat shavings off his efficiency.

2. increased competition. In season 7, it was the first generation of S*'s in veteran, and they were rare. Outside Hawaii, there weren't any other great teams to compete with. Harrisonburg didn't have the roster to compete at that level yet and Tdiddy was low cares that season anyhow. Minnesota was still in Pro. Romo might've fielded a competitive team, but his counter spam had just been nerfed into the ground. Also, defensive coordinators simply weren't as good as they are today. Playcalling against Air Raid was hilariously atrocious against the majority of teams we played. There were only a few teams that knew what plays to use to slow down the passing attack we used. Now most veteran teams have at least a serviceable plan to try and deal with it.

3. Trash Talk Nerf. This killed our defense. We had built specifically to exploit how it worked originally. Corndog murdered it outright. Then, not content to leave the corpse alone, he dug it up and defiled it with the further morale changes that moved the starting point to 50. TT was reduced to functioning as a "morale cap" for opposing QBs. It's el-oh-el terrible now. In season 7, we actually fielded a pretty nasty defense based around passively murdering your QB. Teams had a terribad passing efficiency against us. There weren't any leadership battery QBs in veteran yet, but they would've been really ineffective at 1 moral the entire game too. Rollout QBs were a fumbling mess against us trying to rollout at 1 morale the whole game. We gave the ball back to Cleveland early and often in Season 7.


there were more things that hurt. We turned over the O-line for me to regain some flex. We lost Tdiddy's nice receiving HB after Season 7. We lost some other key players at times and weren't able to find as suitable replacements for my playcalling. The roster got more "possessiony" over time as we replaced losses. Back in Season 7, I fielded a passing attack that had 4 WRs with 98+ sprinting.

Originally posted by Galithor
3. Trash Talk Nerf. This killed our defense. We had built specifically to exploit how it worked originally. Corndog murdered it outright. Then, not content to leave the corpse alone, he dug it up and defiled it with the further morale changes that moved the starting point to 50. TT was reduced to functioning as a "morale cap" for opposing QBs. It's el-oh-el terrible now. In season 7, we actually fielded a pretty nasty defense based around passively murdering your QB. Teams had a terribad passing efficiency against us. There weren't any leadership battery QBs in veteran yet, but they would've been really ineffective at 1 moral the entire game too. Rollout QBs were a fumbling mess against us trying to rollout at 1 morale the whole game. We gave the ball back to Cleveland early and often in Season 7.

I believe we discussed the TT thing a bit when it was relevant... I built my D to do the same thing with TT (3-4 with 2 blitzing TT OLBs). I still get a TON of hurries off the high intimidation, but that doesn't seem to matter as much as I'd have hoped when it counts.

Highly effective vs bad teams, useless against good ones.

Maybe we just need an even bigger penalty to passes while hurried

Originally posted by Aeir
I believe we discussed the TT thing a bit when it was relevant... I built my D to do the same thing with TT (3-4 with 2 blitzing TT OLBs). I still get a TON of hurries off the high intimidation, but that doesn't seem to matter as much as I'd have hoped when it counts.

Highly effective vs bad teams, useless against good ones.

Maybe we just need an even bigger penalty to passes while hurried

Trash Talk just needs to be reworked. The way morale works now with the start at 50 and gravitating to 50, trash talk just really doesn't do anything useful anymore. It literally can't work against some QBs unless they manage to get up high enough on morale for it to get into play, and even then it just operates as a sort of soft cap on how high their morale can climb.

Quite the rivalry indeed

Here's what to take away from this thread:

QB build is nearly irrelevant to their success. Everything surrounding them is what makes them successful.

what i've learned from this thread.... yukiko really hated my rushing QB

if I really wanted to pad yukikos stats over the years, his numbers would have been very similar to what he did this year

Season 7 had two things going for Brown that were missed. We had a hyper aggressive pressure defense. (that subsequently caused issues in later seasons). We were able to punish everyone that got even a little behind and buried them.

The other thing was the out breaking post routes with hyper fast elusive WR's. CB's were routinely destroyed on the deep routes. If they planned for it the TE ate them up.

Edit: Also I have the best backup WR in history

Joseph Addai was a BA mofo right up until the nerfs. His build was super vulnerable to them. They hit him everywhere the build was intentionally weak.

Originally posted by Adderfist
Season 7 had two things going for Brown that were missed. We had a hyper aggressive pressure defense. (that subsequently caused issues in later seasons)

and we didn't? I'm pretty sure the Bulldogs have been atop hurries/sacks in-tier since we started GLB2

Originally posted by TDiddy8701
and we didn't? I'm pretty sure the Bulldogs have been atop hurries/sacks in-tier since we started GLB2

We were aggressive in a different aspect. You had pressure with your LB's, Our pressure was all on the DL with the exception of the 2 intim LB's. They hurt the QB but hardly ever got home.

Originally posted by Adderfist
We were aggressive in a different aspect. You had pressure with your LB's, Our pressure was all on the DL with the exception of the 2 intim LB's. They hurt the QB but hardly ever got home.

And we did indeed outsack harry that season iirc. Trash Talk was OP, but it didn't deserve the fate it got.

I'm probably wrong but my now Soph team will have a Gold TT linebacker. I'm gambling that it can still be effective...in conjunction with other pass rushing aspects.