put your request in here. I will work on it in the next few days as an item I run each end of season.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > GLB2Scout End Of Season Stats
May be a moot point...
But I'd like to see something that breaks down in rookie:
QB runs :# of times / avg yards per
HB runs: # of times / avg yards per
QB runs way overpowered in rookie...and don't even require any running skills to do if you get the right defense
and another thought: Stobie: Is it possible to break down the QB runs say by sections?
- 1st 10 games of the season
- 2nd 10 games
- 3rd 10 games
But I'd like to see something that breaks down in rookie:
QB runs :# of times / avg yards per
HB runs: # of times / avg yards per
QB runs way overpowered in rookie...and don't even require any running skills to do if you get the right defense
and another thought: Stobie: Is it possible to break down the QB runs say by sections?
- 1st 10 games of the season
- 2nd 10 games
- 3rd 10 games
Edited by TxSteve on May 11, 2015 08:25:20
bhall43
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There were nearly 20 shutouts pitched on the top 8 running teams this season in rookie and at least 50 games where teams scored 7 or less points. Are we really talking about making them worse?
I didn't say make them worse.
I said "lets check the data"
at the same time though - those teams (there are several) simply spamming QB left / QB right / HB inside playbooks over and over in rookie hoping to get good play matchups are not good for the game anymore than those teams spamming GL Sweep / GL QB rollout were.
The "there were shut outs" - "good teams can stop it" - "scored 7 points or less" are the same arguments Xavori and Hayrow gave about the GL stuff. They were still wrong -- GL sweep / GL rollout were terrible for the game. I'm simply wondering if the same is true with these QB focused teams (biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part -- secondarily - they exploit the same bad defensive mechanics that caused GL sweep/GL rollout to be so overpowered).
I said "lets check the data"
at the same time though - those teams (there are several) simply spamming QB left / QB right / HB inside playbooks over and over in rookie hoping to get good play matchups are not good for the game anymore than those teams spamming GL Sweep / GL QB rollout were.
The "there were shut outs" - "good teams can stop it" - "scored 7 points or less" are the same arguments Xavori and Hayrow gave about the GL stuff. They were still wrong -- GL sweep / GL rollout were terrible for the game. I'm simply wondering if the same is true with these QB focused teams (biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part -- secondarily - they exploit the same bad defensive mechanics that caused GL sweep/GL rollout to be so overpowered).
Another request for Stobie:
Look at volume at each level of passing plays run -- does it show up that there are only a handful of passing plays that get spammed to death?
Look at volume at each level of passing plays run -- does it show up that there are only a handful of passing plays that get spammed to death?
Jagat0r
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Originally posted by TxSteve
(biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part
I think you hit near the root of the problem here, wish there was some way to compare HB and QB statistics on plays where the ball carrier has less than 25 energy left, so we can see the truth. I dont think QB conditioning is effecting plays the way conditioning effects other positions. But it may be that your other statement takes over, and with the mechanics of the rollout plays fatigue doesnt make a difference because you need less rushing skills to successfully run them to begin with.
Originally posted by TxSteve
QB runs way overpowered in rookie... and don't even require any running skills to do if you get the right defense
(biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part
I think you hit near the root of the problem here, wish there was some way to compare HB and QB statistics on plays where the ball carrier has less than 25 energy left, so we can see the truth. I dont think QB conditioning is effecting plays the way conditioning effects other positions. But it may be that your other statement takes over, and with the mechanics of the rollout plays fatigue doesnt make a difference because you need less rushing skills to successfully run them to begin with.
Originally posted by TxSteve
QB runs way overpowered in rookie... and don't even require any running skills to do if you get the right defense
bhall43
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Originally posted by TxSteve
I didn't say make them worse.
I said "lets check the data"
at the same time though - those teams (there are several) simply spamming QB left / QB right / HB inside playbooks over and over in rookie hoping to get good play matchups are not good for the game anymore than those teams spamming GL Sweep / GL QB rollout were.
The "there were shut outs" - "good teams can stop it" - "scored 7 points or less" are the same arguments Xavori and Hayrow gave about the GL stuff. They were still wrong -- GL sweep / GL rollout were terrible for the game. I'm simply wondering if the same is true with these QB focused teams (biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part -- secondarily - they exploit the same bad defensive mechanics that caused GL sweep/GL rollout to be so overpowered).
Well, you did say they were "way overpowered". Which to me means you want to tone them down. All top 8 rookie running teams were shut out this season by different teams. For comparison sake, Ashland and Porn were not shut out once all season.
The problem with GL was that you could just run it over and over and because there were equal or more blockers (plus the extra TE could make use of SA's) than defenders on the strong side you were very likely going to get a big run out of it somewhere. That is less so the case with any of the rest of the QB Runs.
fwiw their arguments weren't the scoring. Their argument was TFL's and the negatives of those losses outweigh the positives from the big plays. Which clearly isn't the case whatsoever.
I didn't say make them worse.
I said "lets check the data"
at the same time though - those teams (there are several) simply spamming QB left / QB right / HB inside playbooks over and over in rookie hoping to get good play matchups are not good for the game anymore than those teams spamming GL Sweep / GL QB rollout were.
The "there were shut outs" - "good teams can stop it" - "scored 7 points or less" are the same arguments Xavori and Hayrow gave about the GL stuff. They were still wrong -- GL sweep / GL rollout were terrible for the game. I'm simply wondering if the same is true with these QB focused teams (biggest problem imo: conditioning doesn't seem to affect speed or fumble chance for the most part -- secondarily - they exploit the same bad defensive mechanics that caused GL sweep/GL rollout to be so overpowered).
Well, you did say they were "way overpowered". Which to me means you want to tone them down. All top 8 rookie running teams were shut out this season by different teams. For comparison sake, Ashland and Porn were not shut out once all season.
The problem with GL was that you could just run it over and over and because there were equal or more blockers (plus the extra TE could make use of SA's) than defenders on the strong side you were very likely going to get a big run out of it somewhere. That is less so the case with any of the rest of the QB Runs.
fwiw their arguments weren't the scoring. Their argument was TFL's and the negatives of those losses outweigh the positives from the big plays. Which clearly isn't the case whatsoever.
bhall43
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Also fwiw, the weak side of GL wasn't OP'd at all. That rollout could have really been left.
Originally posted by bhall43
Well, you did say they were "way overpowered". Which to me means you want to tone them down. All top 8 rookie running teams were shut out this season by different teams. For comparison sake, Ashland and Porn were not shut out once all season.
The problem with GL was that you could just run it over and over and because there were equal or more blockers (plus the extra TE could make use of SA's) than defenders on the strong side you were very likely going to get a big run out of it somewhere. That is less so the case with any of the rest of the QB Runs.
fwiw their arguments weren't the scoring. Their argument was TFL's and the negatives of those losses outweigh the positives from the big plays. Which clearly isn't the case whatsoever.
You're right - I did say I think they are overpowered. You (and many others) don't think so. That's why I'm asking for the data...so we can remove opinion (or at least reduce it).
I don't think shut outs mean anything. RunGLB shut out the stunners earlier this year. If I were tossing that out to illustrate that running is underpowered -- or run D is overpowered - that would be silly as every other team in the game would probably disagree. Same thing back with xav and hayrow - "it isn't overpowered...my team stops it" - that doesn't mean it is good for the game to slaughter new team owners in rookie who think running a 4-3 cover 2 or a 5-2 cover 2 should be a decent defense against big I. It simply tells those new owners "this game is more about knowing what plays work than using a football thought process". Getting to the place (where most of us are) that you know the few better plays for the most common scenarios does not encourage new players to join the club...it encourages them to say 'this isn't even close to a football sim...this is just a silly game of rock paper scissors where you have to spend lots of money and time to figure out what play option cancels out what o
Bolded above. I agree that the QB runs are not equal to the GL QB rollout/sweep. But I think they are still bad. Maybe the data will prove that my perception is inaccurate. I'm open to that .
I do know that on Legacy - QB with no running skills and only 25 conditioning -- I could still exploit defenses when I got the right call. That means something is off in my mind. No matter what D a team runs -- the stunners could never exploit any one with a surprise passing offense. Air Raid could not shock anyone with a surprise HB running offense.
Well, you did say they were "way overpowered". Which to me means you want to tone them down. All top 8 rookie running teams were shut out this season by different teams. For comparison sake, Ashland and Porn were not shut out once all season.
The problem with GL was that you could just run it over and over and because there were equal or more blockers (plus the extra TE could make use of SA's) than defenders on the strong side you were very likely going to get a big run out of it somewhere. That is less so the case with any of the rest of the QB Runs.
fwiw their arguments weren't the scoring. Their argument was TFL's and the negatives of those losses outweigh the positives from the big plays. Which clearly isn't the case whatsoever.
You're right - I did say I think they are overpowered. You (and many others) don't think so. That's why I'm asking for the data...so we can remove opinion (or at least reduce it).
I don't think shut outs mean anything. RunGLB shut out the stunners earlier this year. If I were tossing that out to illustrate that running is underpowered -- or run D is overpowered - that would be silly as every other team in the game would probably disagree. Same thing back with xav and hayrow - "it isn't overpowered...my team stops it" - that doesn't mean it is good for the game to slaughter new team owners in rookie who think running a 4-3 cover 2 or a 5-2 cover 2 should be a decent defense against big I. It simply tells those new owners "this game is more about knowing what plays work than using a football thought process". Getting to the place (where most of us are) that you know the few better plays for the most common scenarios does not encourage new players to join the club...it encourages them to say 'this isn't even close to a football sim...this is just a silly game of rock paper scissors where you have to spend lots of money and time to figure out what play option cancels out what o
Bolded above. I agree that the QB runs are not equal to the GL QB rollout/sweep. But I think they are still bad. Maybe the data will prove that my perception is inaccurate. I'm open to that .
I do know that on Legacy - QB with no running skills and only 25 conditioning -- I could still exploit defenses when I got the right call. That means something is off in my mind. No matter what D a team runs -- the stunners could never exploit any one with a surprise passing offense. Air Raid could not shock anyone with a surprise HB running offense.
Edited by TxSteve on May 10, 2015 12:46:22
bhall43
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You are taking one small aspect and going pretty far with it. Especially when I know you are mostly talking about ZEB against Trips.
If someone ran all GL defenses against Stunners you don't believe you could take advantage of passing the ball?
You also don't think Air Raid could take advantage of different defenses with the run game? I disagree.
If someone ran all GL defenses against Stunners you don't believe you could take advantage of passing the ball?
You also don't think Air Raid could take advantage of different defenses with the run game? I disagree.
bhall43
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fwiw it is only because of the mechanic flaws you are talking about in this thread that running in rookie is even viable. Because broken tackles don't happen enough to make running viable. Only when all blocks align and you face the right defenses does running become viable. Which is essentially what QB running is.
Originally posted by bhall43
You are taking one small aspect and going pretty far with it. Especially when I know you are mostly talking about ZEB against Trips.
If someone ran all GL defenses against Stunners you don't believe you could take advantage of passing the ball?
You also don't think Air Raid could take advantage of different defenses with the run game? I disagree.
335 Man was also pretty bad most of the time (seemed to require a decently built LOLB)
I believe if we tried passing - and the other team ran all GL - we'd get sacked to oblivion -- but I'm willing to test it if you want to set that D up on run defenders -- I'll set up the scrim.
I don't think Air Raid could run the ball effectively -- say 2WR runs vs dime? or spread inside vs dime c1 or quarter? No - they wouldn't get enough first downs to put up significant points.
You are taking one small aspect and going pretty far with it. Especially when I know you are mostly talking about ZEB against Trips.
If someone ran all GL defenses against Stunners you don't believe you could take advantage of passing the ball?
You also don't think Air Raid could take advantage of different defenses with the run game? I disagree.
335 Man was also pretty bad most of the time (seemed to require a decently built LOLB)
I believe if we tried passing - and the other team ran all GL - we'd get sacked to oblivion -- but I'm willing to test it if you want to set that D up on run defenders -- I'll set up the scrim.
I don't think Air Raid could run the ball effectively -- say 2WR runs vs dime? or spread inside vs dime c1 or quarter? No - they wouldn't get enough first downs to put up significant points.
Originally posted by bhall43
fwiw it is only because of the mechanic flaws you are talking about in this thread that running in rookie is even viable. Because broken tackles don't happen enough to make running viable. Only when all blocks align and you face the right defenses does running become viable. Which is essentially what QB running is.
Depends which part of rookie you're talking about. Late rookie stuff starts working.
I'm all for fixing the mechanics....just like in the past with GL stuff - fixing the mechanics would be best -- removing dumb plays (GL rollout) is 2nd best option.
running offense are much tougher (in my opinion) than passing offenses. Have to get the right play matchups --- where passing doesn't have to change up their playbook and tactics as much from game to game.
No running skill QB's being able to run though speaks to broken plays in my opinion more so than anything else.
We ran with our QB fairly often on the way up the tiers. QB with no running skills -- and HB with no blocking skills (in my case) did so well that there must be something going on behind the scenes that is being boosted/ignored.
fwiw it is only because of the mechanic flaws you are talking about in this thread that running in rookie is even viable. Because broken tackles don't happen enough to make running viable. Only when all blocks align and you face the right defenses does running become viable. Which is essentially what QB running is.
Depends which part of rookie you're talking about. Late rookie stuff starts working.
I'm all for fixing the mechanics....just like in the past with GL stuff - fixing the mechanics would be best -- removing dumb plays (GL rollout) is 2nd best option.
running offense are much tougher (in my opinion) than passing offenses. Have to get the right play matchups --- where passing doesn't have to change up their playbook and tactics as much from game to game.
No running skill QB's being able to run though speaks to broken plays in my opinion more so than anything else.
We ran with our QB fairly often on the way up the tiers. QB with no running skills -- and HB with no blocking skills (in my case) did so well that there must be something going on behind the scenes that is being boosted/ignored.
Danthesportsman
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Originally posted by TxSteve
I don't think shut outs mean anything.
One shut out might not mean much but as Bhall said earlier the top rookie run teams got shut down repeatedly this past season. Yes, I was the owner of one of those teams and there are absolutely ways to completely shut down an all run offense. (heck, when my team played Bhall's team (both all run teams) it resulted in a 3-0 game with barely more than 200 total yards: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/170698 )
Your reply is probably "that's what they used to say about GL QB sweep." Well, there were no defensive plays that could truly shutdown the GL QB sweep, there are many defensive plays that can completely stop any of the QB runs. Unlike the GL Sweep you cannot spam any single QB run and expect good results you have to pick and choose good matchups. (However, you already know this because you admitted it already...)
Originally posted by TxSteve
I agree that the QB runs are not equal to the GL QB rollout/sweep. But I think they are still bad. Maybe the data will prove that my perception is inaccurate. I'm open to that.
First off, I'd say as the person calling for the change the burden is on you to at least present some actual evidence that QB runs are OP. Why do you think they are OP? Is it because of the following quote...?
Originally posted by TxSteve
I do know that on Legacy - QB with no running skills and only 25 conditioning -- I could still exploit defenses when I got the right call. That means something is off in my mind. No matter what D a team runs -- the stunners could never exploit any one with a surprise passing offense. Air Raid could not shock anyone with a surprise HB running offense.
Your argument is that you got good results when you got a good play call matchup? An all run team is all about the play call matchup. This isn't the passing game where you simply spam 5 different pass plays over and over no matter what defenses are called, in order to be successful with an all run team you have got to get good play matchups and you need to hit some homeruns on times the matchups are in your favor.
Just so we are clear, your argument is that we should not get good results when you get good play call matchups?
Originally posted by TxSteve
You're right - I did say I think they are overpowered. You (and many others) don't think so. That's why I'm asking for the data...so we can remove opinion (or at least reduce it).
Psst, you're letting your agenda show Steve.
(Yes, my team is currently an all run team that uses QB runs a lot but I also see that you are going with a *cough* "balanced" *cough* team next season with superstars at passing skill positions).
I don't think shut outs mean anything.
One shut out might not mean much but as Bhall said earlier the top rookie run teams got shut down repeatedly this past season. Yes, I was the owner of one of those teams and there are absolutely ways to completely shut down an all run offense. (heck, when my team played Bhall's team (both all run teams) it resulted in a 3-0 game with barely more than 200 total yards: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/170698 )
Your reply is probably "that's what they used to say about GL QB sweep." Well, there were no defensive plays that could truly shutdown the GL QB sweep, there are many defensive plays that can completely stop any of the QB runs. Unlike the GL Sweep you cannot spam any single QB run and expect good results you have to pick and choose good matchups. (However, you already know this because you admitted it already...)
Originally posted by TxSteve
I agree that the QB runs are not equal to the GL QB rollout/sweep. But I think they are still bad. Maybe the data will prove that my perception is inaccurate. I'm open to that.
First off, I'd say as the person calling for the change the burden is on you to at least present some actual evidence that QB runs are OP. Why do you think they are OP? Is it because of the following quote...?
Originally posted by TxSteve
I do know that on Legacy - QB with no running skills and only 25 conditioning -- I could still exploit defenses when I got the right call. That means something is off in my mind. No matter what D a team runs -- the stunners could never exploit any one with a surprise passing offense. Air Raid could not shock anyone with a surprise HB running offense.
Your argument is that you got good results when you got a good play call matchup? An all run team is all about the play call matchup. This isn't the passing game where you simply spam 5 different pass plays over and over no matter what defenses are called, in order to be successful with an all run team you have got to get good play matchups and you need to hit some homeruns on times the matchups are in your favor.
Just so we are clear, your argument is that we should not get good results when you get good play call matchups?
Originally posted by TxSteve
You're right - I did say I think they are overpowered. You (and many others) don't think so. That's why I'm asking for the data...so we can remove opinion (or at least reduce it).
Psst, you're letting your agenda show Steve.
(Yes, my team is currently an all run team that uses QB runs a lot but I also see that you are going with a *cough* "balanced" *cough* team next season with superstars at passing skill positions).You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.
