Warrior General Games

Hello I'm new.

I love this simulated football, but I have a question concerning the blue and green bars on players.

I'm guessing one might mean energy and the other one speed or something else?

Does anyone know what makes up the blue and green bars and what they represent?

Stamina (Blue)
Morale (Green)

If I remember correctly.

Originally posted by cyberninja
Stamina (Green)
Morale (Blue)

If I remember correctly.

Flipped. Blue, which drains MUCH more during plays is your stamina, basic "energy", governed mostly by your player's Conditioning and Toughness stats (think of conditioning as getting extra hit points, toughness as defense, and you'll have the basic understanding most have of it). A few plays off, and it goes right back up.

Green is Morale, drained when bad things happen, increased when good things happen. It's the games version of momemntum, really, and if you notice your player's morale is under 30 during a game that isn't a blowout yet...your player isn't going to be doing good for the rest of the game. Governed by Heart and Toughness.

Current assumptions are player performance is affected when blue bar drains to zero, otherwise your fine. (there is a noticeable drop in speed when yo hit zero). Any reduction in the morale (green) bar will reduce skills and abilities. So the more morale loss, the worse you get.

Originally posted by Mezirah
Current assumptions are player performance is affected when blue bar drains to zero, otherwise your fine.

wat

if you have energy in the tank there's no reduction in skills. Once you hit zero energy though you slow down, you fumble etc

Originally posted by Mezirah
if you have energy in the tank there's no reduction in skills. Once you hit zero energy though you slow down, you fumble etc

I've always thought it was a gradual decrease based on your energy at the moment.

Say it's a 20% max skill penalty from energy. At 100 energy, you'd have a 0% penalty. At 50 energy, it'd be a 10% penalty. At 25 energy it'd be a 15% penalty.

They've never told us how big the penalties are, or even if every skill is modified the same way by energy or morale. Corndog once mentioned 20%-30% in a discussion thread about morale, but he quickly responded as if it were a hypothetical number. His point though was that the penalties were significant.

Originally posted by Mezirah
if you have energy in the tank there's no reduction in skills. Once you hit zero energy though you slow down, you fumble etc

No, this is wrong.

The meta I took from energy is the less you have, the shorter the blue bar gets over time, and the faster your players reach 0 after snap. The drop in performance from 1 energy to 0 is massive. And I've never noticed poor plays at 1-10 energy then say at 50. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I'll stick with my theory of just bumping con up as players need it, to stay in plays long enough. Otherwise if Galithor is right I'm going to start making players with like 70 con 70 toughness. Sorry but I think you guys are wrong, to my demise or not.

It would be a lot easier to level up a ton of con and toughness then to pay over 1200 per 1 point of technical skills above 80 etc. This information would be pretty devestating to the building paradigm. It would also explain the stunners who went 100% physical and win battles in the 2nd half rather than dominate when all things are equal early on in games. I'd surely like to know.

Originally posted by Mezirah
The meta I took from energy is the less you have, the shorter the blue bar gets over time, and the faster your players reach 0 after snap. The drop in performance from 1 energy to 0 is massive. And I've never noticed poor plays at 1-10 energy then say at 50. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I'll stick with my theory of just bumping con up as players need it, to stay in plays long enough. Otherwise if Galithor is right I'm going to start making players with like 70 con 70 toughness. Sorry but I think you guys are wrong, to my demise or not.

Well, you don't need 70/70 on any position IMO.

I probably don't see 60/60 anywhere either, though 60 toughness on a lineman, or 60 conditioning on a WR/CB/HB/FS/SS/LB are definitely warranted. Neither needs nearly as much of the other though.

The folks that run into trouble on this stuff are those with less than 50 conditioning on positions that run all over the field, or less than 50 toughness on very physical positions. Then you compound that with something silly like 13 heart... and the player just gets murdered at some point during the game with no hope of recovery from the dual-blade of relatively poor energy and mauled morale.

And that's before we talk about the team-wide strategy of attempting to effectively utilize the morale impacting SAs. Most of the best teams in the game are killing other teams because they can maul your bars better than you can maul theirs. 5 extra sprinting isn't going to help you when the other team is collectively ~20 points average higher on intimidation and heart.

Well ya that's my point, but the majority of the physical concern for me was always morale bars. Your telling me in the 4th when my entire offense is at 40 energy, they are playing worse right off the snap. If having 60-70 con and toughness gets that same roster +20 or +30 more energy later in the game, aren't they playing on a higher level? I still don't know if I buy your theory, I've watched ridiculous amounts of gameplay and I've never noticed techniques drop because a guy was low on energy, only DEAD on energy. I'm a little perturbed you and romo say low blue bars nerf gameplay right off the snap. Question would be how much? Couldn't be a ton from what I've seen, but, it changes a lot of things if true.

Originally posted by Galithor
Corndog once mentioned 20%-30% in a discussion thread about morale, but he quickly responded as if it were a hypothetical number. His point though was that the penalties were significant.

Im fully on board with any reduction in morale is a direct reduction% in skill. I'm trying to wrap my head around energy though and I don't think it works the way you say. I think the less energy a player has, the more likely he is subbed out, for the coach's fear of him hitting 0 during a play.

Whenever I've watched the roster play low, I'll wait for the player to make a bad play, or start getting owned in blocking, it's apparent, and then I'll link the play to the agent so he knows he needs more. I've never seen any change in gameplay until it hits zero. I dunno, good question for a Q&A if there ever is one.

Originally posted by Mezirah
Im fully on board with any reduction in morale is a direct reduction% in skill. I'm trying to wrap my head around energy though and I don't think it works the way you say. I think the less energy a player has, the more likely he is subbed out, for the coach's fear of him hitting 0 during a play.

Whenever I've watched the roster play low, I'll wait for the player to make a bad play, or start getting owned in blocking, it's apparent, and then I'll link the play to the agent so he knows he needs more. I've never seen any change in gameplay until it hits zero. I dunno, good question for a Q&A if there ever is one.

Let's recap.

Gal suggests Corndog has mentioned that lower energy leads to a reduction in skills ala lower morale leads to a reduction in skills.
Your observation is that low energy doesn't hamper skills.

Both could be right if there's a flaw in the coding.

The intention of lower energy causing lower skill values is what Corndog is talking about, but if there's a coding problem than your observation would be correct.

However, in my view, you're wrong. I watch lots of games at multiple tiers and while I don't track everything diligently it's not my observation. One thing you need to remember is comparing a CB at 60 energy with the WR at 60 energy should mean that the matchup in Q3 is the same as in Q1 when they were both at 100 energy. To evaluate energy, you need to look at the comparative rather than the absolute value of your player.

My direct observation as to why you are wrong though is this: In Rookie, I spend my first SP on skills, only bringing Conditioning to 20. At the first Star, I buy all the Conditioning I can on all my players.

I notice an immediate difference in games and can tell the other team didn't invest in Conditioning. That's the most "controlled" experiment I can think of when you're matching up against an opponent with closed builds.

As to Gal's point, I think of Conditioning+Toughness to be greater than 100. Lineman can go 40-45 Conditioning with 60 Toughness while CBs go 65 Conditioning with 35 Toughness. Though I think people undervalue Toughness on CBs because it lowers the Morale drain of constantly giving up pass catches in games against Air Raid/Pure Passing.

What do you guys think is "too low" in terms of in game morale?

For instance, I have an LB with low heart (not min, but low) and I like to watch his morale over the course of a game, especially in close losses where it might be the difference between winning and losing (I could care less if his morale is shattered in a blow out loss, not like one player would have changed that outcome). Even with low heart, his morale only ever dips into the low 60s in games like this a few times, and it recovers all the way back up to 100 even after hitting the lowest it gets over the entire game. Most of the game, he is in the 80s and 90s.

I just can't justify investing more SP in heart with performances like this. What are your thoughts?