Warrior General Games

I think it's a little imbalanced right now. Detroit literally won this game in the 1st quarter by assaulting my QB with 3 trash talk plays, I assume gold level. 25 Toughness doesn't seem low to me, but it wasn't enough. I'm curious if 40 would be enough to fend it off? But my point is if a QB doesn't have enough toughness to defend Trash Talk gold, should the other team basically win by disabling the QB? Could there be a limit to 25 morale a quarter or something so at least the QB can attempt to regain some of it back? QB loses 74% of morale bar in 4 snaps;

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536137
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536149
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536165

Originally posted by Mezirah
25 Toughness doesn't seem low to me, but it wasn't enough.

How the hell does that not seem low to you? 25 of anything, on a pro, means you've been willfully ignoring that trait.

Originally posted by Mezirah
I think it's a little imbalanced right now. Detroit literally won this game in the 1st quarter by assaulting my QB with 3 trash talk plays, I assume gold level. 25 Toughness doesn't seem low to me, but it wasn't enough. I'm curious if 40 would be enough to fend it off? But my point is if a QB doesn't have enough toughness to defend Trash Talk gold, should the other team basically win by disabling the QB? Could there be a limit to 25 morale a quarter or something so at least the QB can attempt to regain some of it back? QB loses 74% of morale bar in 4 snaps;

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536137
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536149
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/98186/536165

I can tell you that 40 is indeed enough.

Yeah it's gold.

Anyone know if the Toughness is a general check, or it factors in the Trash Talkers Intimidation skill?

Originally posted by pottsman
How the hell does that not seem low to you? 25 of anything, on a pro, means you've been willfully ignoring that trait.

Because the only purpose it serves is to mitigate one Signature ability, that you may not even see in multiple seasons. It shouldn't be a guaranteed loss when you run up against this. Stripping a QB's morale bar is basically mana burning spam by disciple priests in season 2 of Burning Crusade. Dropping a wow arena reference because these threads will typically be ignored anyways. QQ.

Originally posted by Mezirah
Because the only purpose it serves is to mitigate one Signature ability, that you may not even see in multiple seasons. It shouldn't be a guaranteed loss when you run up against this. Stripping a QB's morale bar is basically mana burning spam by disciple priests in season 2 of Burning Crusade. Dropping a wow arena reference because these threads will typically be ignored anyways. QQ.

Toughness also helps you mitigate the impact of sacks. I've also felt that it reduces the sudden stamina loss when you throw the ball, but I've not really looked at that closely enough to be sure if it's toughness or just conditioning.

But yeah, it's like Dropback Grip. Whether it's worth it to toss 10-20 points into it at the expense of a couple points of something like accuracy is debatable. For our part, we did it on Air Raid just to have a steadier performance at QB regardless of what the defense manages to pull off.

Fwiw, you suffered more trash talks in that one game than I've ever seen in a single game by anyone.

How would you balance trash talk? Just nerf it across the board? Then what would be the point of the SA?

Looking at it from the D's perspective a whole defense had to commit to a certain build to achieve that effect. All a QB has to do is get to 40 toughness to nullify that. Doesn't seem quite fair to the defense. It'd be one thing if there was nothing you could do, but getting to 40 toughness doesn't seem like a steep hill to climb. You could maybe even make do with less.

Originally posted by darkwingaa
How would you balance trash talk? Just nerf it across the board? Then what would be the point of the SA?

Looking at it from the D's perspective a whole defense had to commit to a certain build to achieve that effect. All a QB has to do is get to 40 toughness to nullify that. Doesn't seem quite fair to the defense. It'd be one thing if there was nothing you could do, but getting to 40 toughness doesn't seem like a steep hill to climb. You could maybe even make do with less.

That type of mini-game that has such an extreme swing shouldnt be in the game. Weather the QB defends completely, or the defense's 'build' nullifies an offense completely.

I like the ability, i just think this crap was a little overboard. I'll just bring up my toughness, but then it's not fair to Detroit for building that way. Both results are too extreme.

Seeing as though I'm running the show in Detroit, I'll pipe in some comments (more actually questions...lol) on it..

First off, to be honest, I didn't even know we had a player with gold Trash Talk until this thread was made (haven't watched the game yet) because it never worked that well before. I don't scrutinize every build, just make sure the bulk of SP's are used favorably for our style of play. But enough about that... (and it is only 1 player with that set-up)

I'm actually more interested in finding out how the amount of the morale loss is figured... Is the amount lost determined by Intimidate skill itself (upon losing the toughness check)? Knowing what the Intimidation skill is at on the LB vs the Toughness skill on the QB, that could account for the huge loss (I'll let him post his stats if he wants to, I'll keep them hidden for now, but I will say it is high).

Or is the big loss just because it's gold level, happens often because of his Intimidation skill, and uses a pass/fail to succeed or not?

Judging by the Intim. skill, it could be either, as I haven't seen results like that in well ...ever.

It's definitely a tough pill to swallow no doubt, and showed me the importance of toughness on a QB (truth be told, my QB is at 23 toughness) But honestly if a player is built like his, it should be hard to resist. Should take a lot more than 40, even if it is just a pass/fail.

I could see it being modified to a % loss based on the difference of LBs Intim vs the QBs Tough. Anywhere from 5-20% or so (20% being extreme cases). Also if you tone them down too much, they'll need to stack, which I have yet to see any evidence they do. It seems to be they all get a chance until one succeeds then they can't try anymore. I've also though Leadership/Heart should play a role in reducing the amount lost as well...

Originally posted by Mezirah
Because the only purpose it serves is to mitigate one Signature ability

It also helps with energy and morale deduction when being sacked/tackled.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
It also helps with energy and morale deduction when being sacked/tackled.

Well ya obviously. if you wanna be picky about it, you also left off intimidation from hurries.

Those I could kind of care less about. I built 25 toughness to kind of handle those small rare moments. I wasn't prepared to have my QB's 100% morale raped in 4 snaps. I guess I am now though. I don't like the currently system, it should be more balanced.

Originally posted by Mezirah
Well ya obviously. if you wanna be picky about it, you also left off intimidation from hurries.

Those I could kind of care less about. I built 25 toughness to kind of handle those small rare moments. I wasn't prepared to have my QB's 100% morale raped in 4 snaps. I guess I am now though. I don't like the currently system, it should be more balanced.

fwiw, you got hit with more trash talks in a quarter than most Trash Talkers can usually pull off in an entire game. It's like the 3 INT type game. Sometimes RNG just goes full on "I won the lottery" against you.

Gold Trash Talk is up to 50%, so in roughly 48 plays (42 pass attempts + 6 sacks) it should fire up to 24 times. And that's assuming that particular LB is in the game for all 48 of those. My LBs are on a frequent rotation, so figure 30 of those 48 snaps, at a 50% fire rate, puts it around 15 times in an entire game.

Your playcalling AI could have called a run in there, but didn't.
My LB substitution could have rotated LBs around (frequent), but didn't.
The LB could have failed the check at attempting an intimidation, but didn't.
Your QB could have made a miracle roll at resisting the Intimidation, but didn't.

To see all 3 Trash Talks in a row is, like Galithor said, RNG hell.

All those happened at exactly the wrong time to cause what happened, to happen.

BTW, anyone got a count at just how many times it went off? As I said I haven't been able to watch it yet.

New suggestion: A stat to tell a player how many times each of their particular abilities fired

Originally posted by Aeir
Gold Trash Talk is up to 50%, so in roughly 48 plays (42 pass attempts + 6 sacks) it should fire up to 24 times. And that's assuming that particular LB is in the game for all 48 of those.

And they have to be blitzing.

Not gonna lie...Trash Talk is a big part of my zone blitzing scheme I am implementing. Once that hits Gold on my blitzing LBs and my blitzing CBs speed gets up high, look out passing teams!!!

I'm fairly certain the fire chance is modified by something we can't see. There's no way it even remotely approaches 50%, even against a 13 toughness QB.

It'd be unbelievably overpowered though if it did fire as often as the description would indicate.