Just want to get some people's thoughts on DBG (Drop Back Grip). I heard that it doesn't really help on fumbling while being sacked. Has anybody not put much into DBG and avoided fumbling the ball while being sacked?
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Game Help > Is Drop Back Grip important?
Laggo
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Even if it completely negated fumbles at 40 points of investment it's just too expensive.
Getting sacked is rare in the context of your pass attempts and fumbling when you got sacked is rarer than that, and fumbling when you get sacked and don't recover the ball yourself is the only situation the skill deals with.
So far this season I had 7 fumbles and lost 2. 4 of them were self-recovered and 1 by an o-line.
That's 7 fumbles in 1547 attempts, and I didn't even lose a majority of them. I have 13 drop back grip.
Just to get DPG to 40 from 13 is 4035 SP for me (starting at 77sp for 14 drop back grip). That's insane for a situation that occurs less than half a percent of the time. Even less if we go back to only counting the actual lost fumbles. I'm sure there are more useful ways I could use that 4k SP. The 3 points in accuracy or whatever that translates to probably affect more plays than the 30 extra in drop back grip would.
I had actually always dismissed Drop Back Grip as being terrible but actually bothering to think about it for a second, it seems just fundamentally broken. Unless it does something more than what the skill describes I don't know why it is even in the game. Maybe that and drop back power are meant for running QB's and by 'sack' they really mean 'tackle' (so it helps on QB runs). But even then I would rather be faster or have more elusive running than either of those. I have no clue.
Getting sacked is rare in the context of your pass attempts and fumbling when you got sacked is rarer than that, and fumbling when you get sacked and don't recover the ball yourself is the only situation the skill deals with.
So far this season I had 7 fumbles and lost 2. 4 of them were self-recovered and 1 by an o-line.
That's 7 fumbles in 1547 attempts, and I didn't even lose a majority of them. I have 13 drop back grip.
Just to get DPG to 40 from 13 is 4035 SP for me (starting at 77sp for 14 drop back grip). That's insane for a situation that occurs less than half a percent of the time. Even less if we go back to only counting the actual lost fumbles. I'm sure there are more useful ways I could use that 4k SP. The 3 points in accuracy or whatever that translates to probably affect more plays than the 30 extra in drop back grip would.
I had actually always dismissed Drop Back Grip as being terrible but actually bothering to think about it for a second, it seems just fundamentally broken. Unless it does something more than what the skill describes I don't know why it is even in the game. Maybe that and drop back power are meant for running QB's and by 'sack' they really mean 'tackle' (so it helps on QB runs). But even then I would rather be faster or have more elusive running than either of those. I have no clue.
Edited by Laggo on Jun 21, 2014 22:04:27
Edited by Laggo on Jun 21, 2014 22:03:02
Galithor
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Fumbles are a much bigger deal after you've suffered a few sacks and are somewhat morale spiraled. Fwiw, you probably don't even need 40 to mostly negate them. The majority of the guys who're going to threaten you with sacks aren't pumping power tackling. They're high sprinting/quickness builds with pass rush technique. Their actual tackling skills aren't just dynamite.
That said, 30 power tackling can cause fumbles regularly enough on QBs with no investment in dropback grip. It's a bigger deal at lower levels though. You can more easily maintain morale and avoid sacks at Seasoned+.
My opinion is that sack fumbles can be very detrimental to winning the games they occur in. If tossing a couple thousand SPs into dropback grip to get it to 25-30 can even shave them in half, it's probably worth 1-2 extra wins per season. That's not a bad deal.
Dropback power is something that someone needs to experiment with. If it leads to powerback style "dragging" of potential sackers, it's probably worthless since you'll never break free before the gang tackler arrives to finish the sack. If it causes more of an outright broken tackle though, I could see that as potentially very useful, particularly on a QB with a non-pass blocking focused Oline.
I'm not testing it though, lol.
That said, 30 power tackling can cause fumbles regularly enough on QBs with no investment in dropback grip. It's a bigger deal at lower levels though. You can more easily maintain morale and avoid sacks at Seasoned+.
My opinion is that sack fumbles can be very detrimental to winning the games they occur in. If tossing a couple thousand SPs into dropback grip to get it to 25-30 can even shave them in half, it's probably worth 1-2 extra wins per season. That's not a bad deal.
Dropback power is something that someone needs to experiment with. If it leads to powerback style "dragging" of potential sackers, it's probably worthless since you'll never break free before the gang tackler arrives to finish the sack. If it causes more of an outright broken tackle though, I could see that as potentially very useful, particularly on a QB with a non-pass blocking focused Oline.
I'm not testing it though, lol.
Laggo
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Originally posted by Galithor
My opinion is that sack fumbles can be very detrimental to winning the games they occur in. If tossing a couple thousand SPs into dropback grip to get it to 25-30 can even shave them in half, it's probably worth 1-2 extra wins per season. That's not a bad deal.
Eh, I still don't buy it - you just don't fumble enough in comparison to the number of times you throw the ball.
Even I fumbled 100 times a season that's maybe 5% of the time where this ability has a chance of affecting the play. If I can get 1 or 2 extra wins out of a situation that happens 5% of the time, I have got to be able to find more wins than that getting better at the stuff I am doing 95% of the time. Completing 60% of my passes this season instead of 56.7% seems like a much better deal.
At 40~ heart a lost fumble for me is about 10 morale and I get 2 or 3 back off a simple completion. Yes you can spiral but if you can throw the ball better it won't be so detrimental.
Rookie and Soph is worse but builds are so specialized at that level it's really just a crapshoot of "how much do you pay attention to what is broken in the sim and how many people on your team do you have control of" but maybe that is a descriptor of the whole game
My opinion is that sack fumbles can be very detrimental to winning the games they occur in. If tossing a couple thousand SPs into dropback grip to get it to 25-30 can even shave them in half, it's probably worth 1-2 extra wins per season. That's not a bad deal.
Eh, I still don't buy it - you just don't fumble enough in comparison to the number of times you throw the ball.
Even I fumbled 100 times a season that's maybe 5% of the time where this ability has a chance of affecting the play. If I can get 1 or 2 extra wins out of a situation that happens 5% of the time, I have got to be able to find more wins than that getting better at the stuff I am doing 95% of the time. Completing 60% of my passes this season instead of 56.7% seems like a much better deal.
At 40~ heart a lost fumble for me is about 10 morale and I get 2 or 3 back off a simple completion. Yes you can spiral but if you can throw the ball better it won't be so detrimental.
Rookie and Soph is worse but builds are so specialized at that level it's really just a crapshoot of "how much do you pay attention to what is broken in the sim and how many people on your team do you have control of" but maybe that is a descriptor of the whole game
Proto-Hacker
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My Seasoned QB has 13 DBG and hasn't fumbled since midseason at least (as far back as I went). I don't find it useful if you can keep from getting sacked constantly there is no need for it. From what I have seen on him specifically his fumbles are botched snaps that DBG has no effect on.
Would a faster/quicker QB be susceptible to more fumbles because they have more velocity at the point of impact? 
Galithor
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Originally posted by DeeVee8
Would a faster/quicker QB be susceptible to more fumbles because they have more velocity at the point of impact?
they'd be susceptible to more fumbles probably because you'd have their tactics set to roll into more sacks.
Would a faster/quicker QB be susceptible to more fumbles because they have more velocity at the point of impact?
they'd be susceptible to more fumbles probably because you'd have their tactics set to roll into more sacks.
Parab00n
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Originally posted by Laggo
Even if it completely negated fumbles at 40 points of investment it's just too expensive.
Getting sacked is rare in the context of your pass attempts and fumbling when you got sacked is rarer than that, and fumbling when you get sacked and don't recover the ball yourself is the only situation the skill deals with.
So far this season I had 7 fumbles and lost 2. 4 of them were self-recovered and 1 by an o-line.
That's 7 fumbles in 1547 attempts, and I didn't even lose a majority of them. I have 13 drop back grip.
Just to get DPG to 40 from 13 is 4035 SP for me (starting at 77sp for 14 drop back grip). That's insane for a situation that occurs less than half a percent of the time. Even less if we go back to only counting the actual lost fumbles. I'm sure there are more useful ways I could use that 4k SP. The 3 points in accuracy or whatever that translates to probably affect more plays than the 30 extra in drop back grip would.
I had actually always dismissed Drop Back Grip as being terrible but actually bothering to think about it for a second, it seems just fundamentally broken. Unless it does something more than what the skill describes I don't know why it is even in the game. Maybe that and drop back power are meant for running QB's and by 'sack' they really mean 'tackle' (so it helps on QB runs). But even then I would rather be faster or have more elusive running than either of those. I have no clue.
Those 7 fumbles are just from the league games in in 867 attempts with 25 sacks so 28% of the time when you are sacked you fumble. You have 11 fumbles in Ladder play with 60 sacks so 18% fumble chance per sack.
Even if it completely negated fumbles at 40 points of investment it's just too expensive.
Getting sacked is rare in the context of your pass attempts and fumbling when you got sacked is rarer than that, and fumbling when you get sacked and don't recover the ball yourself is the only situation the skill deals with.
So far this season I had 7 fumbles and lost 2. 4 of them were self-recovered and 1 by an o-line.
That's 7 fumbles in 1547 attempts, and I didn't even lose a majority of them. I have 13 drop back grip.
Just to get DPG to 40 from 13 is 4035 SP for me (starting at 77sp for 14 drop back grip). That's insane for a situation that occurs less than half a percent of the time. Even less if we go back to only counting the actual lost fumbles. I'm sure there are more useful ways I could use that 4k SP. The 3 points in accuracy or whatever that translates to probably affect more plays than the 30 extra in drop back grip would.
I had actually always dismissed Drop Back Grip as being terrible but actually bothering to think about it for a second, it seems just fundamentally broken. Unless it does something more than what the skill describes I don't know why it is even in the game. Maybe that and drop back power are meant for running QB's and by 'sack' they really mean 'tackle' (so it helps on QB runs). But even then I would rather be faster or have more elusive running than either of those. I have no clue.
Those 7 fumbles are just from the league games in in 867 attempts with 25 sacks so 28% of the time when you are sacked you fumble. You have 11 fumbles in Ladder play with 60 sacks so 18% fumble chance per sack.
Edited by Parab00n on Jun 22, 2014 07:30:31
mrm708
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I cant wait to play against qbs in seasoned+ that haven't put a single point in DBG. That'll be barrels of fun.
Laggo
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Originally posted by Parab00n
Those 7 fumbles are just from the league games in in 867 attempts with 25 sacks so 28% of the time when you are sacked you fumble. You have 11 fumbles in Ladder play with 60 sacks so 18% fumble chance per sack.
I hate the statistics in this game, you got me
even so, 7 fumbles in 867 is still less than a percentage of my throw attempts and it's so easy for the QB to recover their own fumbles in this game since it seems like they get to roll first since they are on top of the ball when it happens (lol) I still don't buy it
I'll fumble 40% of the time I get sacked if it means I get to throw 62%. I'll still recover at least half of those fumbles on my own and the other 99% of the time I will be getting yards I wouldn't have if I was a better sack avoid-er.
Those 7 fumbles are just from the league games in in 867 attempts with 25 sacks so 28% of the time when you are sacked you fumble. You have 11 fumbles in Ladder play with 60 sacks so 18% fumble chance per sack.
I hate the statistics in this game, you got me
even so, 7 fumbles in 867 is still less than a percentage of my throw attempts and it's so easy for the QB to recover their own fumbles in this game since it seems like they get to roll first since they are on top of the ball when it happens (lol) I still don't buy it
I'll fumble 40% of the time I get sacked if it means I get to throw 62%. I'll still recover at least half of those fumbles on my own and the other 99% of the time I will be getting yards I wouldn't have if I was a better sack avoid-er.
peeti
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Originally posted by Laggo
I hate the statistics in this game, you got me
even so, 7 fumbles in 867 is still less than a percentage of my throw attempts and it's so easy for the QB to recover their own fumbles in this game since it seems like they get to roll first since they are on top of the ball when it happens (lol) I still don't buy it
I'll fumble 40% of the time I get sacked if it means I get to throw 62%. I'll still recover at least half of those fumbles on my own and the other 99% of the time I will be getting yards I wouldn't have if I was a better sack avoid-er.
Uhm no...the botched Snaps you most likely get with the QB but sack.fumbles are rather rarely picked up by the offense from what I see.
I personally invested early in 20 DBG in rookie cause lost fumbles lost too many games for us in midseason. Now the HBs are pumped on Grip as well as my QB and so far the rolls favor us again. Might be just bad luck/luck tho
I hate the statistics in this game, you got me
even so, 7 fumbles in 867 is still less than a percentage of my throw attempts and it's so easy for the QB to recover their own fumbles in this game since it seems like they get to roll first since they are on top of the ball when it happens (lol) I still don't buy it
I'll fumble 40% of the time I get sacked if it means I get to throw 62%. I'll still recover at least half of those fumbles on my own and the other 99% of the time I will be getting yards I wouldn't have if I was a better sack avoid-er.
Uhm no...the botched Snaps you most likely get with the QB but sack.fumbles are rather rarely picked up by the offense from what I see.
I personally invested early in 20 DBG in rookie cause lost fumbles lost too many games for us in midseason. Now the HBs are pumped on Grip as well as my QB and so far the rolls favor us again. Might be just bad luck/luck tho
Ancient Sith Lord
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm still torn on this issue. Might flip a coin. 
Ancient Sith Lord
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The question is how many fumbles per sack, not how many fumbles per pass attempt. I have a run blocking O-Line so I will probably give up some sacks. Except I am about to sign a S* pass blocking left tackle.
Proto-Hacker
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My seasoned QB has been sacked 33 times fumbled once from a sack I believe. Only 13 DBG.
peeti
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Originally posted by Proto-Hacker
My seasoned QB has been sacked 33 times fumbled once from a sack I believe. Only 13 DBG.
Dunno how his fumbles came, but at least in league games he got sacked 11 times and fumbled 4 times
My seasoned QB has been sacked 33 times fumbled once from a sack I believe. Only 13 DBG.
Dunno how his fumbles came, but at least in league games he got sacked 11 times and fumbled 4 times
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