Warrior General Games

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2510284&pbp_id=3217142

In the visualization power through is seen above the returner even though he didn't break the tackle an actually fumbled on the play. Is this a new feature in the replays? If so I like it, even though it was my dot dropping the rock on the turf.

I suspect the football did a "power through" his hands.

Shoulda got Cover Up. No amount of carrying is enough on ST's.

I've never used cover up myself and had very little issue with fumbles on my returners. Either I've been the luckiest guy in ALL of GLB (of anyone who has built more than 5-10 returners)... or strength+carrying means more to the outcome of any possible fumble play than anything else (meaning SA's and VA's). I'm not positive enough to say absolutely that that is true... but I feel fairly strongly about it.

173 combined strength and carrying.
Wish I could re-do the build now though, could have a bit more carrying with what I know now.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I've never used cover up myself and had very little issue with fumbles on my returners. Either I've been the luckiest guy in ALL of GLB (of anyone who has built more than 5-10 returners)... or strength+carrying means more to the outcome of any possible fumble play than anything else (meaning SA's and VA's). I'm not positive enough to say absolutely that that is true... but I feel fairly strongly about it.

You don't have L79 returner........
If you want to argue Cover Up is useless, do that after you have a L79 returner and have that one fight all FF ST, then take that stat back to say anything.

Originally posted by aaasahi
You don't have L79 returner........
If you want to argue Cover Up is useless, do that after you have a L79 returner and have that one fight all FF ST, then take that stat back to say anything.

Also this, Most FF STOP's don't round out until lvl 79.
My returner only fumbled once before he faced level 79's. Since then in 1.5 seasons he's fumbled 5 times. It's certain to be much more than that as time passes. Unless you were to start the returner build with Carrying, then speed, then strength, then agility you're just going to be facing FF's at plateau. STOP's are typically purpose build with 190+ combined strength and tackling before the STer VA, and then 20%+ FF chance, monster hit, power tackler VA, etc. etc. etc.

My dot has not fumble % and it's like he doesn't even have not fumble% AEQ. I wish I had gotten cover up over power through as my second bonus SA. I'm sure my teams coordinators would much rather have less turnovers than the few extra TD's.

Originally posted by aaasahi
You don't have L79 returner........
If you want to argue Cover Up is useless, do that after you have a L79 returner and have that one fight all FF ST, then take that stat back to say anything.

I've had several. I don't keep my retired dots. I did one, which was a fav of mine... http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2568280 But he's the last of the "Returner archetypes" I built. I use elusive HB builds now. And what is stupid is, since it was a CB returner archetype, GLB doesn't post stats relative to his job. So there's no list of any "Fumbles". This is something the GLB community (and myself) have been posting about in the suggestions forum for years now (more accurate stats OR the ability to choose which stats you want to show). So while you can go look at the dot, it won't tell you what you wanna know. Sorry.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I've had several. I don't keep my retired dots. I did one, which was a fav of mine... http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2568280 But he's the last of the "Returner archetypes" I built. I use elusive HB builds now. And what is stupid is, since it was a CB returner archetype, GLB doesn't post stats relative to his job. So there's no list of any "Fumbles". This is something the GLB community (and myself) have been posting about in the suggestions forum for years now (more accurate stats OR the ability to choose which stats you want to show). So while you can go look at the dot, it won't tell you what you wanna know. Sorry.

That dot played all his plateau in Casual League, and not even Casual Pro.
His stat can't even point out anything, he never met decent FF ST.
Using that dot to argue with me is totally wrong, find another example please.

And you can check fumble numbers in your "Full Season Stats" tab.

4th Season in WL http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4301301
5 Career WL fumbles on 332 combined returns.

Originally posted by aaasahi
That dot played all his plateau in Casual League, and not even Casual Pro.
His stat can't even point out anything, he never met decent FF ST.
Using that dot to argue with me is totally wrong, find another example please.

And you can check fumble numbers in your "Full Season Stats" tab.

Sorry. As I said, I don't keep my retired players. I only kept that one because it was the last of my "returner archetypes". And it isn't even my best dot... just something I was trying stuff with. But I've had quite a number of returners and build them still as well as manage ST's for a handful of teams... so I'm sorry I don't have ready examples for you but I'm not just speaking from no experience.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Also this, Most FF STOP's don't round out until lvl 79.
My returner only fumbled once before he faced level 79's. Since then in 1.5 seasons he's fumbled 5 times. It's certain to be much more than that as time passes. Unless you were to start the returner build with Carrying, then speed, then strength, then agility you're just going to be facing FF's at plateau. STOP's are typically purpose build with 190+ combined strength and tackling before the STer VA, and then 20%+ FF chance, monster hit, power tackler VA, etc. etc. etc.

My dot has not fumble % and it's like he doesn't even have not fumble% AEQ. I wish I had gotten cover up over power through as my second bonus SA. I'm sure my teams coordinators would much rather have less turnovers than the few extra TD's.

True. I also notice that, once you hit plateau, the number of fumbles seem to dwindle. I seem to remember seeing posted somewhere about the "way" collisions happen on ST's (dots running at full speed at one another) has quite a bit to do with the chances of fumbles. AEQ and SA's and VA's only add to that as well. I'm just not sold on Coverup, I guess. Not because it doesn't work but more because there's more important things to get like BT and Spin which help avoid those hits in the first place. As for avoiding fumbles, I simply like a high carrying skill best. I'd ask Sellars though. I suspect he builds better returners than I do. JDbolick would also know a thing or two, probably.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
True. I also notice that, once you hit plateau, the number of fumbles seem to dwindle. I seem to remember seeing posted somewhere about the "way" collisions happen on ST's (dots running at full speed at one another) has quite a bit to do with the chances of fumbles. AEQ and SA's and VA's only add to that as well. I'm just not sold on Coverup, I guess. Not because it doesn't work but more because there's more important things to get like BT and Spin which help avoid those hits in the first place. As for avoiding fumbles, I simply like a high carrying skill best. I'd ask Sellars though. I suspect he builds better returners than I do. JDbolick would also know a thing or two, probably.

To me the chances of actually getting return TDs at the highest levels of the game is so low that it's more important to be able to hold onto the dotball than it is to have that extra break tackle SA or w/e as opposed to cover up.

Originally posted by DarkRogue
To me the chances of actually getting return TDs at the highest levels of the game is so low that it's more important to be able to hold onto the dotball than it is to have that extra break tackle SA or w/e as opposed to cover up.

Hmmm... could be. I suppose it comes down to... in games of quality (not against CPU or half CPU or lower level teams)... does your returner GIVE more than it costs. Not just in terms of TD's (which are awesome)... but field position also. If not, then you have a case for the SA. I'm not saying I'm right but I've just never felt that way concerning the SA myself. Now I must add that, I generally am also the one responsible for the ST setups for my returners (not always... but usually)... and, sometimes other people's returners as well... so there's likely a biased opinion on my part. Just being honest. To be more open, I'd like to hear LHF, Sellars, or JD weigh in as well. All three I know well enough to know their dots and respect their opinions. Not that other dot builders aren't good... those just happen to be the 3 that I know well enough. I'm always open to changing my mind or opinion on something.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Sorry. As I said, I don't keep my retired players. I only kept that one because it was the last of my "returner archetypes". And it isn't even my best dot... just something I was trying stuff with. But I've had quite a number of returners and build them still as well as manage ST's for a handful of teams... so I'm sorry I don't have ready examples for you but I'm not just speaking from no experience.

I don't care you keep or not keep your players, but if you want to argue something is not worth, you must show your data.
You are never a famous player at highest level, at least i never saw you at NPL or WL, so I can't take your comment without any evidence.
So if you want to say you don't use Cover Up but your returner didn't have fumble problem, show that data, or just don't say that.
The problem isn't you say something maybe wrong, the problem is you will mislead other people.......

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
True. I also notice that, once you hit plateau, the number of fumbles seem to dwindle. I seem to remember seeing posted somewhere about the "way" collisions happen on ST's (dots running at full speed at one another) has quite a bit to do with the chances of fumbles. AEQ and SA's and VA's only add to that as well. I'm just not sold on Coverup, I guess. Not because it doesn't work but more because there's more important things to get like BT and Spin which help avoid those hits in the first place. As for avoiding fumbles, I simply like a high carrying skill best. I'd ask Sellars though. I suspect he builds better returners than I do. JDbolick would also know a thing or two, probably.

For returner, every fumble is critical, because the ball is very likely recovered by opponent, and it's very close to your end zone.
So a returner should do everything to reduce fumble chance.
Break tackle or fake is good, but it won't make your returner magically improved.
Not saying high carrying is wrong, but you just need do everything.

Originally posted by aaasahi
For returner, every fumble is critical, because the ball is very likely recovered by opponent, and it's very close to your end zone.
So a returner should do everything to reduce fumble chance.
Break tackle or fake is good, but it won't make your returner magically improved.
Not saying high carrying is wrong, but you just need do everything.



Makes sense. I've just never seemed to have major issues with fumbles at the high levels... usually mine happen at lower levels... before I get AEQ. Sorry we haven't crossed paths at the higher levels but it's cool. Sometimes that's just the way it is. My only question to you is, if BT pieces are #1 (most generally speaking)... and you want at LEAST 2 of those... would you exchange a 3rd piece of BT for Cover up? Or prefer fake? Or is the 4th piece an absolute must have?