Warrior General Games

This is a work in progress that I'll be contributing to when I have some free time across the next week or so - feel free to submit your own data if you'd like to help out, or do some data verification for me.

Of course attributes have an effect on skills, but just how much? If you want your player to have 100 sprinting, or 100 balance, just what attributes should you take to 10, and which ones are less important? This spreadsheet will let you see the relative impact of each attribute on each skill, position by position (currently missing: G, C, DE, DT, CB, FS, SS, but every attribute is covered somewhere - just keep in mind that different positions have different coefficients for skills, but the same attributes govern each skill).

Methodology: I start by creating a player of the shortest height, lowest weight, and 10 point in strength, 5 in the rest. Then, record what the cap for each skill is (while accounting for the additions/subtractions from traits). Then, retirement, and proceed with a 10 in speed, rest all the same, and so on. I then found the mode for each skill cap (if bimodal, I used the median of the two modes, if more than two modes, no calculations), and subtracted that mode from each attribute's cap, to see what it does to the attribute. There is also a set of columns listing the "minimum" score that I received, and the columns showing how much the skill changed from the minimum.

Limitations, potential weaknesses, and future directions: Currently, initial skill levels and costs to increase have not been measured.

Anyway, here's the sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anaq4aqbVOtadFFFSzk2ckx2bDVaOWZFN3dQYXNBNnc&usp=sharing

This is going to allow for a small few to do all the work for a bunch of lazy people. The people that watch games and look into players and all that are the ones that deserve the fruit of their efforts - not some lazy guy clicking on a spreadsheet telling him where to put his SP. Everyone should figure things out themselves or as a team - or ruin the fun and challenge for everyone.

LOCK THIS SHIZ UP!

Shouldn't you be using the min, and the value over the min? Then you could do a calculation like:

(Increase in value over Min)/(the number of points you increased, aka 5) = increase in stat value per level increase in attribute.

Then, if you allocate a "value" to each skill (such that you personally value a 1 point increase in Pass Technique to be worth 2.5 points and a 1 point increase in elusive running to be worth 0.25) you could perform your own personal calculation to determine optimal attribute allocation.

This would eventually need to be tied to traits and SP cost to cap in order to do a proper job of a build calculator.

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
This is going to allow for a small few to do all the work for a bunch of lazy people. The people that watch games and look into players and all that are the ones that deserve the fruit of their efforts - not some lazy guy clicking on a spreadsheet telling him where to put his SP. Everyone should figure things out themselves or as a team - or ruin the fun and challenge for everyone.

LOCK THIS SHIZ UP!

This has nothing to do with watching games.

Part of the problem is that you also need to subtract the traits bonuses and add the traits penalties to your data. I'm guessing that the raw data that you posted hasn't added the points back in for having chosen early bloomer?

Using your data, I predict that if you built a min/min HB with the three listed traits, then if you used the following attributes:

Strength - 7
Speed - 4
Agilty - 10
Stamina - 3
Awareness - 4
Confidence - 7

You would get the following max caps (first number removes Early Bloomer):

Carrying Grip - 74.2 - 64.2
Power Running - 72.2 - 62.2
Elusive Running - 71.6 - 61.6
Carrying Awr - 51.8 - 41.8
Return Awr - 49.8 - 39.8
Route Technique - 66.4 - 56.4
Route Elusiveness - 77.4 - 67.4
Receiving Hands - 64.6 - 54.6
Catch in Traffic - 77.8 - 67.8
Receiving Grip - 69.4 - 59.4
Rec Awareness - 43.8 - 33.8
Rec Consistency - 58.2 - 48.2
Pass Blk Tech - 63.8 - 53.8
Pass Blk Power - 53.6 - 43.6
Pass Blk Awr - 43.8 - 33.8
Run Blk Tech - 79 - 69
Run Blk Power - 68 - 58
Run Blk Awr - 47.8 - 37.8
Lead Blk Awr - 45.4 - 35.4
Block Consistency - 67.4 - 57.4
Balance - 89.2 - 79.2
Footwork - 86.6 - 76.6
Quickness - 88.8 - 78.8
Sprinting - 47.8 - 37.8
Vertical - 84.4 - 74.4
Diving - 82 - 72
Conditioning - 41.8 - 31.8
Toughness - 60.4 - 50.4
Snap Reaction - 49.6 - 39.6
Heart - 71.4 - 61.4
Intimidation - 57.2 - 47.2

Swapping out Early Bloomer, Bruiser, and Blocking Back would allow you to shore up the caps where you needed to. For instance, increasing the cap on Sprinting to get it up to at least 60 would be very helpful, without having to spend the attribute point to get it there.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Part of the problem is that you also need to subtract the traits bonuses and add the traits penalties to your data. I'm guessing that the raw data that you posted hasn't added the points back in for having chosen early bloomer?


You are correct - these are completely the numbers that get spat out at me. I'll probably re-edit HB and QB to put back on those points later tonight, and account for trait losses in the rest of the positions. My goal, right now, is less for "final build calculator" and more about just seeing what the general trend is when I take a point out of confidence or stamina.

I thought about working with the minimum instead of modes, but the one thing that stopped me from that is the fact that since I'm using minimum weight/height, the numbers being used aren't the absolute floor values (as lowering height increases balance, among other things), so I went with the most common score as a way of controlling for the height factor. But this is also why I'm giving the base numbers, too - if you find it more useful to use those and subtract the minimums, DL the sheet and swap my median column out for something more useful to you.

Also, with QB Drop Back Grip, I was just plain confused - is it that the "natural" floor is 47, and agility is the one factor that doesn't affect it, is it's natural value something else and it's hurt by speed, agility, and awareness...that messed with me.

Actual results achieved against expected:

Carrying Grip, 63, 1.2
Power Running, 62, 0.2
Elusive Running, 62, -0.4
Carrying Awr, 43, -1.2
Return Awr, 41, -1.2
Route Technique, 57, -0.6
Route Elusiveness, 67, 0.4
Receiving Hands, 55, -0.4
Catch in Traffic, 67, 0.8
Receiving Grip, 59, 0.4
Rec Awareness, 35, -1.2
Rec Consistency, 48, 0.2
Pass Blk Tech, 54, -0.2
Pass Blk Power, 44, -0.4
Pass Blk Awr, 35, -1.2
Run Blk Tech, 69, 0
Run Blk Power, 58, 0
Run Blk Awr, 39, -1.2
Lead Blk Awr, 37, -1.6
Block Consistency, 57, 0.4
Balance, 80, -0.8
Footwork, 76, 0.6
Quickness, 79, -0.2
Sprinting, 39, -1.2
Vertical, 74, 0.4
Diving, 72, 0
Conditioning, 34, -2.2
Toughness, 51, -0.6
Snap Reaction, 41, -1.4
Heart, 61, 0.4
Intimidation, 47, 0.2

Originally posted by pottsman
You are correct - these are completely the numbers that get spat out at me. I'll probably re-edit HB and QB to put back on those points later tonight, and account for trait losses in the rest of the positions. My goal, right now, is less for "final build calculator" and more about just seeing what the general trend is when I take a point out of confidence or stamina.

I thought about working with the minimum instead of modes, but the one thing that stopped me from that is the fact that since I'm using minimum weight/height, the numbers being used aren't the absolute floor values (as lowering height increases balance, among other things), so I went with the most common score as a way of controlling for the height factor. But this is also why I'm giving the base numbers, too - if you find it more useful to use those and subtract the minimums, DL the sheet and swap my median column out for something more useful to you.

Also, with QB Drop Back Grip, I was just plain confused - is it that the "natural" floor is 47, and agility is the one factor that doesn't affect it, is it's natural value something else and it's hurt by speed, agility, and awareness...that messed with me.

Think of the floor (for a 5 attribute) as 47. Increasing speed to 10 increased the skill's cap to 48. In my calculations (which were reasonable) would assign that a value of 0.2 per level. Obviously, due to rounding, the increase from speed could be anywhere from .5 to 1.4, so adding speed could give you an increase of anywhere between 0.1 and 0.298 and this would be hidden in the rounding.

We are now trait-neutral.

Originally posted by bhall43
This has nothing to do with watching games.

OK, knowing what a player's skill levels are at and actually watching him for his effectiveness in using that skill can't be seen in games, you're right.

That was sarcasm.

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
OK, knowing what a player's skill levels are at and actually watching him for his effectiveness in using that skill can't be seen in games, you're right.

That was sarcasm.

wat does that have to do with the OP? He is talking about player creation, not sim effectiveness.

Trait neutral data for the above mentioned HB:

Carrying Grip - 72.2
Power Running - 69.2
Elusive Running - 74.6
Carrying Awr - 53.8
Return Awr - 49.8
Route Technique - 66.4
Route Elusiveness - 77.4
Receiving Hands - 64.6
Catch in Traffic - 77.8
Receiving Grip - 69.4
Rec Awareness - 43.8
Rec Consistency - 58.2
Pass Blk Tech - 57.8
Pass Blk Power - 47.6
Pass Blk Awr - 37.8
Run Blk Tech - 73
Run Blk Power - 62
Run Blk Awr - 47.8
Lead Blk Awr - 39.4
Block Consistency - 67.4
Balance - 89.2
Footwork - 86.6
Quickness - 88.8
Sprinting - 47.8
Vertical - 84.4
Diving - 82
Conditioning - 41.8
Toughness - 60.4
Snap Reaction - 49.6
Heart - 71.4
Intimidation - 57.2

Building:

At this point, you plan your SP costs (which traits you need to reduce the SP costs for the most important and expensive skills), where you will use traits to increase your cap, and where you will use cap boosters to increase your cap.

This will be very important for Superstar planning, as you only get one shot at it per SS tier.

Originally posted by bhall43
wat does that have to do with the OP? He is talking about player creation, not sim effectiveness.

How do you know what skills to add to when you create a player? You don't just put all the points in heart for everyone do you? No, you put in what you think will make the player the most effective. If you watch games you will see which skills are having a larger effect on certain things. Then you can take that knowledge and create a more effective player than if you knew nothing about the game or just stuck all your points in heart. Understand sir?

My first post is basically saying if one or two people are going to take the time and effort to find out how to squeeze every SP out of a player, whether at player creation or during their career, or find out which skills are worth taking to whatever levels - those players should be rewarded, not everyone else who didn't put in any effort besides play the game and leech off other's work.

There's a point where you can watch the game and adapt your player or teams' direction to be more effective, but when you start getting down to calculating the exactness of a skill point and then sharing it with everyone, well then everyone is going to want a perfect build because it has actually been better defined. Now there is no clear way on what is even very good, let alone near perfect. Once you define what the best is, everyone wants it, cookie cutter builds come in, diversity goes out. Finding out by trial and error and observation are more realistic, let's use that and keep the exact numbers behind it hidden.

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
How do you know what skills to add to when you create a player?

That still has nothing to do with the OP and you can already run the leg work on this really easy by doing the VPB in GLB2.

Updated through OT on offense, plus LB (so that at least one defensive position was done, as we enter dot building time). I also took a suggestion from Bhall and added a set columns for the Minimum score, and each attribute's score minus the minimum.

One other thing - please, be careful about typing on the doc. It's unprotected, in case anyone wants to help out and do some data, but a few people have accidentally cleared out a few cells (I fixed those).