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Time Trial
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4324379&playoffs=0

No deflect ball AEQ. Swat ball was increased to 8 over the course of the season and Towering Man was added over the course of the season (is now at 13). Jumping is 53.

Went from deflecting 2 balls a season over the last few seasons to deflecting 30 this season.

I'm thinking of building my entire next D-Line to be maximum height and to finish with 55 jumping, 6-8 swat ball, and 10-15 towering man. I'll be able to make faster and harder hitting dots if I can afford to take jumping lower on my CBs or coverage LBers (since the over the middle passes will likely have more dots to throw through).
 
PeeJJK
SM4LL
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I like your research, same with the hurdling power back.
 
Theo Wizzago
Coyote
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Firm believer in tall defenders. It did wonders for my CB some season back. Was a PD foo that also got plenty of INT's. Didn't use towering man though... gonna try that with my new one.
 
Galithor
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DEs do seem to get more PDs than DTs when built like this. You'll get half as many from a DT with the same build. Those screens and passes to the flat are more common than the short-midrange passes over the middle that are deflectable by the d-line.

How do you feel they held up against the run?

Did you go with bull rushing or a technique man rushing style?
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Galithor
DEs do seem to get more PDs than DTs when built like this. You'll get half as many from a DT with the same build. Those screens and passes to the flat are more common than the short-midrange passes over the middle that are deflectable by the d-line.

How do you feel they held up against the run?

Did you go with bull rushing or a technique man rushing style?


Trick question. If I use Technique Man VA, I also use Bull Rusher VA. In this case, I currently don't have him as a technique man; however, he's got 91.79 base agility, so I could make the next eight points of his AEQ upgrades go to agility AND/OR I could swap his basic AEQ to agility and he would be able to use techique man against many ROT builds. Without having to sell any AEQ I could give him 112.79 agility + whatever he's got left in training and ALGs. I won't do that though because he's probably only going to finish with 68 speed.

He holds up decently well against the run because he's got over 140 strength (and that will end up over 150). I didn't make him super strong with multi-training the way I would with a normal build because I needed to pull off Strength to work other attributes. He's got a couple of make tackle pieces, so he does a pretty good job of tackling when called to do so (18 tackles, 4 missed tackles, 13 Hurries, 0 sacks.) Once his speed and first step are increased he will be able to make a bigger difference in that realm. For now, he's not that fast so he's staying in front of the QB, which is helping to prevent the downfield throws.

You could go in and look at his games, but I don't think more than 2 or 3 of those pass deflections came from screens. He's too slow to get in and break up the screen pass, so most of those PDs are attempts at throwing over the d-line down the field.

Black Mage (Final Fantasy) (Lv. 68 DE)
EL 78
SpValue - 1178.44
Ht/Wt: 6'8", 330lbs


Strength: 142.79 (+44)
Speed: 61.46
Agility: 94.79 (+3)
Jumping: 53
Stamina: 58.46
Vision: 68.79
Confidence: 36.46
Tackling: 81.79

Special Abilities
Containment Abilities
Swat Ball: 9
Wall: 1
Strong Base: 1
Diving Tackle: 1
Monster Hit: 1

Pass Rusher Abilities
First Step: 4

Veteran Abilities
Bull Rusher: 15
Goal Line Stand: 1
Pass Rusher: 15
Power Tackler: 14
Slow Starter: 1
Towering Man: 13

Current Bonuses/Penalties
Make tackle chance: +21%
Break block chance: +6%

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2388904&pbp_id=7688853
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2357249&pbp_id=6196060
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2357249&pbp_id=6196990
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2357272&pbp_id=4652016
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2357272&pbp_id=4651294
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2357272&pbp_id=4651136
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2383052&pbp_id=6509431
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2383052&pbp_id=6510751
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2383052&pbp_id=6512015
 
jdbolick
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Don't chase Technique Man. That VA doesn't seem nearly as powerful as you'd think it would be. The same goes for Pocket Defender.
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Don't chase Technique Man. That VA doesn't seem nearly as powerful as you'd think it would be. The same goes for Pocket Defender.


Yeah, that was my plan. I use technique man on the dots where it makes sense to do so. Though I have seen a lot of benefit of technique man on 100+ agi DTs.
 
Galithor
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I've used Tech Man with Bull Rusher VA as well before. Have tried all sorts of tactics and VA combos. Have gone from 158str/94agi down to where the build below is now.

Even the stronger 158 builds got pushed around regularly. I'm convinced that at 6'8", there's nothing you can do to not get beaten on the line during a running play on a regular basis. At the pro level against solid opposition anyhow. Sure my guys got thier stats on pass deflections and did well enough on other typical D-line stats... but in real games against tough teams, they were rarely factors.

It's entirely possible that the higher speed ended up hurting the build in ways that I wouldn't have expected. I've read more lately that makes me think a 48 speed guy for a pass deflector would be more ideal than an 80 speed guy.

Here's the build I used, on a DT, but the DE followed the exact same build plan give or take a couple points.

Craig Smoak (Lv. 79 DT)
Ht/Wt: 6'8", 360lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $0
Daily Salary: $11000
Skill Points: 0
Training Points: 0
Bonus Tokens: 1
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 0/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 148.1 (+45)
Speed: 87
Agility: 104.1 (+10)
Jumping: 62
Stamina: 55
Vision: 66.1
Confidence: 55

Football Skills
Blocking: 8
Catching: 8
Tackling: 82.1
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 8
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Pass Rusher Abilities
The Glare: 0
Shed Blocks: 0
Swat Ball: 0
Strong Base: 0
Big Sack: 0

Run Stuffer Abilities
Wall: 1
Break Through: 1
Snarl: 1
Big Hit: 1
D-Line General: 1

Additional Abilities
First Step: 2
Veteran Abilities
Workout Warrior: 10
Bull Rusher: 15
Overtime Killer: 1
Sure Tackler: 15
Technique Man: 15
Towering Man: 15

Current Bonuses/Penalties
Strength: +3.09
Make tackle chance: +15%
Break block chance: +18%
Deflect ball chance: +18%

Those just happened to be the VAs I had as of last season. Workout Warrior, Bull Rusher, and Towering Man are the 3 that never changed.
 
Time Trial
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No swat ball SA? What deflect tactic do you use? I switched to intercept and that has been huge for deflecting at the line.
 
Galithor
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Semi-Aggressive. Never really considered Intercept. I'll give it a spin on my remaining DTs as an experiment in thier first decline season before retiring them.

And no, I didn't go Swat Ball due to it being a negative SA on the run stuffer archetype. I was hoping to build them to hold up at the line against the run while still knocking down passes. It's easy enough to get 140+ str though with a pass rusher archetype though, so I'll do that next time if I try it again. Building for a run stuffer didn't help in any appreciable way against the run. Probably would have helped had I pumped the SAs to leverage the archetype, but I didn't end up doing it.

Ultimately, I don't think they were terrible at pass deflections. The DE did have 34 in two different Pro seasons, and the DTs typically got into the teens. If I'd built an entire D-line of 4 DEs and 4 DTs, It's probably around 150 deflections available at the line on the season with the builds I chose. The problem is that 95% of those come in games that aren't relevant to winning a championship, and in those games my guys are liabilities in the running game against teams that can leverage that extra half to full YPC between the tackles. Not to mention, the small handful of deflections in those relevant games are typically on bad passes that won't be completed anyhow, or good passes the secondary may well have deflected/intercepted without the D-line intervention.

I'm tempted to try it again with a full line and tweak to add swat ball and reduce speed to 60(or even 48) while sharing the points freed up to boost jumping(70s), vision(68), and Swat Ball. Even if they deflect more passes though, I'm not sold on the idea that it's worth it. If you're knocking down enough passes, it will make well coached teams one dimensional in a way that hammers at the weakness of the build, which is the 6'8" stature makes your guys more susceptible to being driven off the line at the point of attack on rushing plays.
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Galithor
Semi-Aggressive. Never really considered Intercept. I'll give it a spin on my remaining DTs as an experiment in thier first decline season before retiring them.

And no, I didn't go Swat Ball due to it being a negative SA on the run stuffer archetype. I was hoping to build them to hold up at the line against the run while still knocking down passes. It's easy enough to get 140+ str though with a pass rusher archetype though, so I'll do that next time if I try it again. Building for a run stuffer didn't help in any appreciable way against the run. Probably would have helped had I pumped the SAs to leverage the archetype, but I didn't end up doing it.

Ultimately, I don't think they were terrible at pass deflections. The DE did have 34 in two different Pro seasons, and the DTs typically got into the teens. If I'd built an entire D-line of 4 DEs and 4 DTs, It's probably around 150 deflections available at the line on the season with the builds I chose. The problem is that 95% of those come in games that aren't relevant to winning a championship, and in those games my guys are liabilities in the running game against teams that can leverage that extra half to full YPC between the tackles. Not to mention, the small handful of deflections in those relevant games are typically on bad passes that won't be completed anyhow, or good passes the secondary may well have deflected/intercepted without the D-line intervention.

I'm tempted to try it again with a full line and tweak to add swat ball and reduce speed to 60(or even 48) while sharing the points freed up to boost jumping(70s), vision(68), and Swat Ball. Even if they deflect more passes though, I'm not sold on the idea that it's worth it. If you're knocking down enough passes, it will make well coached teams one dimensional in a way that hammers at the weakness of the build, which is the 6'8" stature makes your guys more susceptible to being driven off the line at the point of attack on rushing plays.


Slow D-line will also increase the attack options for a quick moving O-line. First Step can help sove that issue, but you are losing a bit on the lack of a DE rush. Because wall is favoured I think you could make an argument on a Towering man DE to pump Swat Ball (slot one) and Wall (slot 2, favoured), and then put some points into strong base (slot 3, favoured). 8 points in First Step (slot 1, penalized) would also help close those gaps.

Not having a DE able to get to the flats might make you susceptible to screen passes unless you are blitzing from the outside.

Gang Tackle + Make Tackle Chance + FF Chance instead of deflect ball pieces will round out the build and help close off some of those one-dimensional rushing attacks against your D-line.
 
aaasahi
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Originally posted by Time Trial
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4324379&playoffs=0

No deflect ball AEQ. Swat ball was increased to 8 over the course of the season and Towering Man was added over the course of the season (is now at 13). Jumping is 53.

Went from deflecting 2 balls a season over the last few seasons to deflecting 30 this season.

I'm thinking of building my entire next D-Line to be maximum height and to finish with 55 jumping, 6-8 swat ball, and 10-15 towering man. I'll be able to make faster and harder hitting dots if I can afford to take jumping lower on my CBs or coverage LBers (since the over the middle passes will likely have more dots to throw through).


I used to do this. Here is my dot, S28-S31 at pro and S32 at WL.
DT with run stuffer has swat ball as penalty SA so DT didn't invest that very much.

5DT
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252276
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252229
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252265
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252240
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252254

5DE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252318
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252291
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2252303

Their jumping isn't very high(~49)m but the result is pretty good.
 
PsychoMan
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I tested this out with this DT a little while back. Had some decent success -not as much as I'd have hoped.

I pretty much built him for PDs but found he was also decent at getting hurries and a pretty good run stopper. The high jumping seemed to help with diving tackles at the line.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2262157

6' 8" (max)
360 lbs (max)

64 jumping
81 vision

8 swat ball
10 strong base (to get separation from blocker)

15 towering man
15 bull rusher
15 pass rusher

For much of his career he had +% deflect ball AEQ and Long Reach VA -you can see by his stats why I eventually removed these for other VAs/EQ. They didn't seem to make a huge difference.
Edited by PsychoMan on Jul 20, 2013 06:24:18
Edited by PsychoMan on Jul 20, 2013 06:24:02
 
juggernaut56
Juggs
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i've liked towering man, swat ball combo for a while. salvaged a few dot's while dcing this way. been testing this out since around season 20. one dt had 48 pd's in usapl his first season after the change with a below average build. i have two de's set up to knock down passes currently. to me, speed seems to be key. there is a certain sweet spot where he can stay in a lane longer and without being blocked as the ot is setting the pocket, quicker throws with slower guys.... and the de wouldn't get blocked at all for the easy swat. my de's also have diving tackle..... with the extra jumping they have, figured it couldn't hurt.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=3085261
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=3213641
 
jdbolick
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Mine has been less effective without Swat Ball and with somewhat low vision: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=3823981 Of course, he also plays primarily against run formations.
 
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