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MileHighShoes
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I'm trying to make an interesting thought experiment for a defense into a reality.
Does anyone know how feasible it would be for a full corp of hard hitters to play in zone coverage with man underneath on HB, FB, and TE's?

Dots will end with 141-145 Speed while still being HH's. Could this work, and more importantly, is anyone willing to participate, as either dot builders or a DC, or just in contributing strategy, or perceptions about the idea.
 
foofighter24
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The success would depend on how well zone coverage, KL, and FF's work in that season's sim, how well the DC executes the plan, and how well the player's are built.

 
Flashdance
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Originally posted by foofighter24
The success would depend on how well zone coverage, KL, and FF's work in that season's sim, how well the DC executes the plan, and how well the player's are built.



The success would depend on whether you were successful or not?
 
MileHighShoes
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Great discussion so far guys, i feel enlightened.

Now i know that zone can be taken advantage of by targeting holes in the zone... but could the DC hold back the O long enough to either force fumbles, or KL most passes. Or is zone defense gonna be secondary to man? Could you get away with running almost exclusively zone?
 
Oren74
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Great discussion so far guys, i feel enlightened.

Now i know that zone can be taken advantage of by targeting holes in the zone... but could the DC hold back the O long enough to either force fumbles, or KL most passes. Or is zone defense gonna be secondary to man? Could you get away with running almost exclusively zone?


Fun and interesting to try...but would take months, or even a year to determine effectiveness, along with 6 or 7 LBs, 9-11 DBs. So Figure 15 200 flex players over say 5 months to get an answer...or 57,000 flex points.

Have at it...oh, keeping in mind, like the above people said, the sim could change making your results worthless
Edited by Oren74 on Dec 8, 2010 13:27:52
 
MileHighShoes
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Pretty sure we can get 15 dots... i hope. I'm willing to make 2, so really we just need to find 13 dots... so at most 13 more agents, and a couple others have already expressed interest, so I'm looking at this as a definite possibility...

But how easy would this kind of defense be to exploit from an offensive point of view?
 
Sarg01
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes


But how easy would this kind of defense be to exploit from an offensive point of view?


That depends on how many zones you plan on filling, and which ones. If you rush more than 4 there's going to be an easily targeted spot - the game becomes keeping the hole from matching up with their play. Of course, you could probably give up the Flat zones out of hand and just expect your under zone guy to make the tackle for a small gain.

I kind of think it's more trouble than it's worth. At least man up on the WRs.

Edited by Sarg01 on Dec 25, 2010 17:17:52
 
MileHighShoes
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=3604

I'll let ya'll know how it goes
 
Ronin 49
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Very interesting. I'm actually attempting to build a HH CB myself. It looks like I'm late.

Is there a reason you went combo CB's?
 
MileHighShoes
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Originally posted by Ronin 49
Very interesting. I'm actually attempting to build a HH CB myself. It looks like I'm late.

Is there a reason you went combo CB's?


ALG's man, everything is always ALG's.
.5 in Strength, Tackling, Speed, and Agility

only archetype that can get me high enough str and tack to be a hard hitter without sacrificing speed (as much as HH's do). The .25 ALG's to vision really sucks but I will have SV at 11 and will end with 80 vision so I think they'll be okay to play in zone...
 
Ronin 49
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Oh ok I see.

So VA's in BH and FG could help too. I would guess Jackhammer over MH, or maybe even HH. How's jackhammer these days?
 
MileHighShoes
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I don't really know if JH works well, but I picked it up assuming it works like the VA used to.
Gonna get ballhawk, but passing on FG, going with death grip for all CB's and giving all Safeties Rip the Ball to get the extra 45% FF chance for safeties to FF. No speed threats should be breaking tackles on the CB's regardless, but the thought is that they'll swarm power backs and if they all miss at least one or two will get dragged until one of the wrecking balls (Safeties, MLB, ILB's) can get there, this way we can run the CB's on power tackling and HOPE they miss and get dragged if they don't FF.

And if it doesn't work too well we'll just reset.
 
Ronin 49
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Sounds cool. I'd love to see this team vs the outside runs. I have a feeling those CB's and Safeties are going to be causing some animosity out there. GL.
 
justme2002
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There's plenty of ways to make that work. You'd have to stack the planet, but after that, there's plenty of tools that are in place now - whether they'll still be there is not yet known.

Remember that out cuts on here don't exist, so you could refuse in cuts all day long. The route combo's don't do anything to stretch a zone vertically, which is how a zone is busted, so you don't have to worry about that.

You could naturally take away;

WR digs
TE pipes
and any double move.

After that, what routes are run? The only thing they could get every down are anything behind the L.O.S. to backs.

Let's try a scenario - strong-I, 2nd and long, elusive back on the field. Get the imbalance of the defensive line over the strong side of the offense, stack all 3 backers and introduce the SS in a 9 technique. Have him cover the numbers near the flanker, or same side receiver. Cover zone immediately. SS gets primary force vs. the pitch and forces the flanker to lengthen his stem vs. a 3 deep zone. The split-end, WR1, sees ROLB, CB1 and Free Safety. He's out. TE sees MLB, LOLB and FS. He's out. That's pretty tough to deal with. All the while the QB's holdin' the ball and routes have to develop and your pressure can get there. You can even use a bunch of fire zones too - get a numbers advantage to one side and get bodies deeper in the backfield before they see a blocker.

On here, it's definitely something you could do, but the WR build culture replicates Randy Moss, so with everything being downfield, it's mano-a-mano in jump ball situations if the QB pulls the trigger. That could cause a problem. Move to quarters, and you have a bigger problem with too much field available short. Move to 4 and 4, and you have no pass rush.

It'll be the same as man to man - can your corners hold up? You'll have to start with a 3 deep zone. Play 2 deep/5 under zone, a double zone or the classic cover 2, then you've committed too many closer to the L.O.S. and you'll have defenders covering air all down long.
Edited by justme2002 on Jan 3, 2011 19:44:04
Edited by justme2002 on Jan 3, 2011 19:35:10
 
tautology
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
I'm trying to make an interesting thought experiment for a defense into a reality.
Does anyone know how feasible it would be for a full corp of hard hitters to play in zone coverage with man underneath on HB, FB, and TE's?

Dots will end with 141-145 Speed while still being HH's. Could this work, and more importantly, is anyone willing to participate, as either dot builders or a DC, or just in contributing strategy, or perceptions about the idea.


This was pretty much the premier defense in season 10.

It became less potent when zone spec and ballhawk got nerfed, then jackhammer and zone spec got nerfed again, then pump fake turned zone defenders into drooling idiots, then zone started working again last season but not really well enough to make a full featured comeback.


Basically you will be at the mercy of the sim.
 
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