Warrior General Games

Obviously speed and agility are first two stats to be tackled, but what comes next, vision or carrying and why?

Carrying is obviously important to trigger spin, brk tackles, and fumble avoidance. Would vision help find the holes earlier resulting in longer returns?

Yes.

Carrying and vision are both very important. Boost one of them as your 3rd primary attribute and the other as your 4th primary attribute. Which one is up to you.

I wouldn't bother bringing vision about the 2nd cap. Unless they somehow change the pathing, having more vision is pretty pointless. You're better of bringing strength to the 2nd or 3rd cap and have carrying to at least the 4th cap.

Originally posted by Homage
I wouldn't bother bringing vision about the 2nd cap. Unless they somehow change the pathing, having more vision is pretty pointless. You're better of bringing strength to the 2nd or 3rd cap and have carrying to at least the 4th cap.
Agree. Vision imho is over-rated. For my return man, I'm happy at a mere 2/1 vision, yet despite the vision so low, he's found some excellent holes and is quick at recognizing the field. Here are some plays - notice his recognition:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=517129&pbp_id=4436017
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1264574&pbp_id=2133953

It's not that vision doesn't help. It does, as the Mentor KR glitch's effect on vision can attest to several seasons ago, but it seems to make the KR'er do unorthodox things, for better or worse:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=672367&pbp_id=5752444
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=608209&pbp_id=3158356

Although, with how much the special teams sim has evolved, I think vision is even worse. Return men need more brTk'ing to compensate for the lack of avoiding players. This is why carrying is much more important. The bonus to fumble avoidance is good too:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1264930&pbp_id=3080020

vision may go a long way to those punts that don't get caught and roll into the 5 or get caught as the returner immediately steps out of bounds because he saw the ball late and couldn't get there.

When I made my first returner I went straight to the leagues and looked up the top returners and tried to find ones with builds open. The majority seemed to have vision as a 3rd, so I went that route too. After the fact I realized that this is most likely just because the majority of KRs went that route, not just the most successful ones. Once I started pumping points into it, I never really saw noticeable effect from it. It may be that I just needed to put it very very high. But if that is true, then I would rather just get another stat very very high instead and leave vision low.

Originally posted by azrolator
When I made my first returner I went straight to the leagues and looked up the top returners and tried to find ones with builds open. The majority seemed to have vision as a 3rd, so I went that route too. After the fact I realized that this is most likely just because the majority of KRs went that route, not just the most successful ones. Once I started pumping points into it, I never really saw noticeable effect from it. It may be that I just needed to put it very very high. But if that is true, then I would rather just get another stat very very high instead and leave vision low.
Also be mindful of the returners age. The old-school returners did prioritize vision, but the philosophy back then was different at the time. There was once a big glitch several seasons ago involving the no-longer used "Mentor" VA and its relation to its impact on vision:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=608209&pbp_id=3158356 (return man mentor glitch #1 - return man runs backwards)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=675988&pbp_id=11069690 (return man mentor glitch #2)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=672367&pbp_id=5752444 (return man mentor glitch #3 - My favorite. Taunts Defenders.)

Problem is the special teams sim has evolved so much. Just be sure to reference fairly recent return men. The old ones philosophies no longer work.

And Return man VA is giving 3% bonus to vision. Thats 45% extra vision when maxed...think I better leave it alone...