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Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Discussions > Reworking Morale From The Ground Up
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Jakemall
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Seems to me that certain things should have a long term or a short term affect.

Examples:

A blocker that misses a block that doesn't result in a sack might be kicking himself for a couple plays but he has probably forgotten all about it by the next drive or even next set of downs unless it has happened multiple times.

On the otherhand, a player that has a pick six will probably be sky high all game long unless he played horribly afterwards giving up a couple TDs or the like.
 
LC311
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To add to the "team events".. I personally think things like 3 and outs should add morale to the D and subtract from the O.. Likewise long drives should boost the O and hurt the D's morale...
 
Dollarbill13
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Agree that this will be very complicated. I don't think this is the current situation so I'll suggest it. As time passes during the game, morale regresses back to where it started. If the HB loses a fumble and his morale is hit, he will steadily regain morale until he's back to his original level unless further morale hits take place. High confidence will help them regain that morale at a quicker pace. Similarly, if a player has high morale and gets a bonus (as in Mat McBriar's example), the player will regress to normal morale unless they keep making morale improving plays. Higher confidence will make their morale decrease at a slower pace.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by Jakemall
Seems to me that certain things should have a long term or a short term affect.

Examples:

A blocker that misses a block that doesn't result in a sack might be kicking himself for a couple plays but he has probably forgotten all about it by the next drive or even next set of downs unless it has happened multiple times.

On the otherhand, a player that has a pick six will probably be sky high all game long unless he played horribly afterwards giving up a couple TDs or the like.


This Too.

A "Next Play" or "This Series" or "This Quarter" morale modifier should be there for lesser events.

Or have going into the huddle or to the bench provide a chance to recover morale, so that small morale dings are smoothed out in a short period of time.
Edited by yello1 on Jun 29, 2010 14:30:23
 
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Morale no longer has any effect on physical skills.
Morale only effects football skill and mental skills.

Base Morale = 100 or in the alternative 99, 98, 97, depending on outcome of previous games. (Same system we use now)

Starting game morale = Base + promotion or individual bonuses

Starting morale above 100 cannot be gained back.


A dot makes a bad play he is now vulnerable to losing X morale. A dot will always be vulnerable to losing morale above 100.

When the opposing team does something positive he loses morale up to his vulnerability.
When his team does something positive he will gain morale back up to 100

The dot's vulnerability will remain the same or continue to decrease for each bad play he makes.

Basically under this scheme there is no team wide morale spiral because players that do not make bad plays will not lose morale below their vulnerability...

Confidence will affect how vulnerable you will be after a bad play, how much morale you lose for a negative team event, how much morale you gain from positive team events ...





Edited by Stephenthegreat on Jun 29, 2010 14:57:02
Edited by Stephenthegreat on Jun 29, 2010 14:56:06
Edited by Stephenthegreat on Jun 29, 2010 14:54:19
 
Staz
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Have any of the people in that discussion paid attention to this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4066692 ?

There is a few things that should be taken seriously

1. There needs to be a value for almost EVERY. SINGLE. ACTION. In my opinion, having an INT should yield a certain value, and then modifiers based on length of the return, whether it scores or not, how big of an impact this has on the game, etc.

On top of that, small actions like a three yard run will have very different impacts based on situations, what the team needs, score of the game, etc. A three yard run on 1st and 10 is no big deal. A 3 yard run on 3rd and 2 is good. A 3 yard run on 4th and 1 is bigger. A 3 yard run for a touch down is bigger yet. A 3 yard run for a TD to tie the game is huge. A 3 yard TD to take the lead is even bigger. Etc.

DO NOT JUST SAY "THIS ACTION IS WORTH THIS MANY POINTS", PLEASE. Each action should have some value assigned to it, yes, but based on your confidence, game situation, etc. there should be a modifier applied to everything. EVERYTHING.

Confidence should reduce the morale loss (%), whether it be via direct action, or the player just "deteriorating" by sitting on the bench.

2. There needs to be "intimidation". The intimidation SAs are in the game, and they need to have some sort of separate effect than just reducing overall morale. Morale = Momentum. Being afraid of a certain player doesn't directly impact your momentum, just generally influence the way you deal with things. The thread linked above gets into that, and if you'd like to read a discussion on the specific concept, go here: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3950794 Bort already mentioned that he liked the concept, and the idea of a player v player value being kept. This would also only impact rolls and would play a small role in player performance and morale loss/gain.

3. Two key thing needs to be addressed:

- The bigger the game, the bigger the morale swings. Playoff games are a bigger deal than game 1 of the regular season. Also, being in Week 16, NEEDING to win this game to make the playoffs is a bigger deal than being in Week 16 and being 15-0 at that point. This needs to be addressed some how.

- The closer the game, the bigger your morale should be impacted. A TD run in a 75-3 blow out isn't that big of a deal. A TD run in a 13-10 game is. Especially late in the game.

4. Remove the effect of morale on physical skills, mostly. Allow morale to affect ROLLS as a modifier, not directly to their physical skills. Perhaps, if a player's morale gets so low that he "gives up", then possibly reduce his physical skills. Otherwise, we need to have morale only affect the player's roles, not actual skills. Then, if this entire point (#4) is added, we could see a use for a VA allowing a player to "fight" longer, causing him to go longer without giving up.
Edited by Staz on Jun 29, 2010 15:18:37
Edited by Staz on Jun 29, 2010 15:15:14
 
AngryDragon
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I kind of wish that all players would be able to start all games with a minimum of 100 moral. Some leagues are very lopsided and teams may have a tough first 4 games. This can create a snowball effect on teams and lead to more losses against teams they otherwise would have beat. Basically it ruins the fun of the league when teams can't game plan their way out of a hole.

A great example would be my teams Pro season. This was a couple seasons ago but we lost a lot of early heart breakers by 3 or less points. By the end of the season we were getting blown out of games by teams we more than likely could have beat at the beginning of the season when our moral was higher. We had a lot of things go against us that season. Moral was not the only factor but it was a part of the problems we had that season.

I think a happy medium would be to leave moral losses after games as it is but never let any player start a game with less than 100 moral. So, for example, if a player has 90 moral due to the team losing games he should start with 100 moral but 90 should be his ceiling. So once the game moral drops to 90 or below there is no bonus during the game that can elevate it past 90. The same would apply to a player starting a game with 100 or more moral. I think that number should be a players ceiling but not necessarily his starting moral.

This could emulate real life more as real teams are generally able to treat each game with a fresh outlook. Losing teams that get behind early tend to say, "here we go again", and the spiral begins. My point is to not start the spiral so soon. Give teams an equal shot at winning each game and let the results of the sim decide if a team should have a moral spiral.
 
InRomoWeTrust
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Originally posted by Staz
Have any of the people in that discussion paid attention to this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4066692 ?


Obviously. That's not saying I agree with much of it, though.
 
REDAZZ
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Adding a Morale substitution setting similar to that of the energy settings might be helpful. Providing that morale can increase during a game like a player's energy level.

Contracts should have a position/playing time rider that effects the morale of the player. Whether its a percentage of plays promised or starting spot, compared t o a back up or special teams spot. Failure to meet that criteria would lessen the morale of the player. The % of plays played could be a game by game criteria.
 
crave681
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Originally posted by Dollarbill13
Agree that this will be very complicated. I don't think this is the current situation so I'll suggest it. As time passes during the game, morale regresses back to where it started. If the HB loses a fumble and his morale is hit, he will steadily regain morale until he's back to his original level unless further morale hits take place. High confidence will help them regain that morale at a quicker pace. Similarly, if a player has high morale and gets a bonus (as in Mat McBriar's example), the player will regress to normal morale unless they keep making morale improving plays. Higher confidence will make their morale decrease at a slower pace.


+1

Think of the player's confidence as a rubber band... he does good (or team does good) it stretches upward, but settles back down to base level eventually. Converse, he does bad
(or team does bad) it stretches downward but settles back up to base level eventually.
 
Dr. E
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Other than the problem with a moral spiral that can't be recovered from, I don't see any issue with the current system. Of course, I have no real idea what the numbers are doing in Bort's programing, I can only see the effects.

Without any of us knowing what morale actually does now and/or what Bort intended for the effects of morale now and in the future, we can't really make a positive contribution. Instead we will see mostly guys wanting a system that favors or fails to impact what they want for their Dots and/or team.

So my suggestion... fix the morale spiral of death that prevents a team from making a come back and call it done.
 
kuaggie
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2nd page.

I'll post my thoughts soon

edit: looks like everything I would have suggested has already been pointed out. The only thing that I would like to add to the conversation is what attributes are affected and how much they are affected. When a player is rattled they see a significant drop in mental and technical skills and only a minute drop in physical skills. The inverse is also true- players at the top of their game and pumped up, may run a little faster but I guarantee you their biggest improvement will be in their decisions. I don’t know the current numbers, but...
I’d argue that physical skills- strength, speed, agility should have at most a +/- 1% at both ends of the morale spectrum.

Technical skills such as catching, carrying, passing, punting and blocking should be more effected significantly more(probably around +/- 5% although that’s a number out of thin air).

The most mental skills- kicking and vision should have major sways based on how the player is feeling (probably around +/- 10%). Everything of course should be heavily buffered by a player’s confidence

second edit (spaced out what you should really read)
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 29, 2010 16:00:14
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 29, 2010 15:59:40
 
Staz
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Offense:

Offensive "Running"
Carrying the ball
- Bigger gains = bigger morale gains, +% for each yard, can go negative for TFLs
- First Downs = Bigger gains, +% for 1st Down gain.
- Touchdowns = +%, % is based on game situation, down, etc. covered later

Breaking Tackle/Faking a Defender
- The bigger the broken tackle/fake, the bigger the value (lower the shoulder is less "big" than power through and/or spin, Head Fake is less impressive than Juke, etc.). ALL are included in this, even CF and PF
- Consecutive broken tackles is +% each tackle broken

Fumbles
- Loss of morale, +% of impact based on situation


Catching the Ball

Catch in Traffic
- The more defenders near you during the catch, +% for "risk"

Catching a Deflection
- +% for the severity of the deflection

Catching a Pass
- +% for being hit after the pass, each tick should change the value of this aspect, with the highest value being at the exact moment the catch is made, and reducing each tick, eventually bottoming out at whatever value is set.
- Consecutive catches +%, with value growing as the streak climbs.
- Any "special" catch has a +% associated with it, growing with difficulty of the catch (1 handed, diving, jumping)
- Just like carrying the ball, bigger gains = bigger morale gains


Passing

Completing a Pass
- Consecutive completions is +% for each completion.
- Just like with catching a pass/carrying the ball, longer gains = bigger morale gains
- Tougher the throw (higher risk value) the higher the completion morale gain is (+% for risk of throw)
- Touchdown provides +% based on score, time left, importance of the TD, etc.
- Incomplete passes follow basically "opposite" rules of completions, with a few exceptions - Risk of throw. The riskier the throw, the less morale you lose on an incompletion (easier it is, the more you lose on an inc throw) and "throwing it away" is a small morale loss.
- Poor throws = morale loss based on how poor it was
- Completions while scrambling = bigger gains

Pressure
- Longer the sack, the more morale loss
- More sacks = bigger losses (+% for each sack, consecutives get another +%)
- Hurries cause small morale loss
- If the QB tucks the ball to run, it follows "carrying the ball" morale points with small modifier, since a QB scrambling for a gain is more "impressive" than a typical run

Interceptions
- Bigger the return on the pick, the bigger the morale loss (+% for each return yard)
- Multiple INTs = Bigger morale (+% for each pick)



Blocking

Holding Blocks
- Longer the block is held, +% morale (per tick? Second?). Should be relatively small value, though
- Broken Blocks = morale loss. The quicker the break, the more the value (Assign max value, and reduce possible value per tick/second/whatever)
- If the player who sheds the block makes a play, blocker receives +x% of the ball carrier or QBs lost morale (whoever got hit/hurried/fumbles/etc.)

Pancakes
- Pancaking a defender = +%, consecutives get a slight bonus %
- Revcakes = morale loss, consecutives get +% value



Defense

Making a tackle
- Consecutive made tackles w/o a miss = +% per consecutive make. Missed tackle resets to original make tackle % boost. Consecutive misses also has a growing morale loss
- The bigger the hit, the more the morale gain (+% for big hits, monster hits and consecutives, diving tackles are lowest)
- TFL gets a gain, bigger losses = bigger morale gains (+% per yard of TFL)

Breaking a Block
- Quicker you break the block, the higher the value (see Holding Blocks under Blocking)
- If you do not break the block, morale loss is dictated by time (See Holding Blocks)

Pressure
- Hurries, consecutives get +% per.
- Sacks, same rules apply. Bigger the sack (distance) the higher the gain (small variance). Big Sack also gets a boost.

Disrupting a Pass
- Bigger the deflection, bigger the gain (+% for higher rolls), modifier for it leading to INT

Turnovers
- Forcing a fumble gets a value, and is modified by who recovers it (team). If offense does, it reduces the value, if defense does, it raises it.
- INT gets a value, and is modified by length of return (+% per yard)
- Defensive TDs are huge, so big gain there




Special Teams

Returns
- Counts as carries, but should have a slightly reduced modifier for the yards gained
- TDs get a value, more than a passing, receiving or carrying, in my opinion. Maybe same as defensive TD?

Field Goals
- Longer the FG, the bigger the gain (+% per yard)
- Misses reduce morale, the shorter the miss the more the effect (-% per yard from GP)
- Consecutive misses reduce morale, opposite with makes

Should we do something for punts?





Team Modifiers
The team, in general, should get a smaller morale impact for anything happening. If the offense scores a rushing TD, they should get a percentage of what the ball carrier's morale gain was. Being on the field = bigger impact. Being on the bench is a smaller impact.


Situational Modifiers

Score
- The closer the game, the bigger the impact. Assign a max value, and -% per point difference, with 0 as your min value for no effect based on score. This will simulate players getting more excited for a big play in a close game than a big play in a huge blow out.

Time
- Later in the game, the bigger the impact on morale. Should only kick in at the end of each half, with the 4th quarter being even bigger. I'd say 6 minutes or less, start a +% for each second, doubling the effect inside two minutes.

Game Importance
- Like mentioned previously, the bigger the game is for this team, the more the morale should be impacted. Not sure how we touch this one, though.

All situational modifiers stack onto the final value of the action
 
Staz
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Originally posted by Mat McBriar
Obviously. That's not saying I agree with much of it, though.


Okay, obviously there's at least one who has read it, but I do feel that ALL of the people in that group of the TS should be constantly in the suggestions forums, reading, chiming in and taking/offering input. Just my .02.
 
lrunkle911
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this is great guys. I am very excited to see this level of discussion on what is a very important issue.

I totally agree with the morale going back toward normal as the game goes and the need for situational modifiers. an OT missing a block on a DE that doesn't even get a hurry off the play shouldn't be affected as much as one that gives up a Sack or even a sack/fumble hurry/int combo which would impact even more. score and time also need to play a factor.

while that is a ton of coding and logic to build. I think it would take the game to the next level. I get aggravated when I win the game and my HBs average 4+ yards a carry yet my Centers have supper low morale. so they get crushed on play after play. the team is wining the battles.

This gives me a lot of hope for the future of GLB. thank you mods and ownership.

edit: spelling.
Edited by lrunkle911 on Jun 29, 2010 16:06:12
 
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