Warrior General Games

Instead of continuing to the outside, the QB always cuts it in. (lots of examples) Been doing this pretty much all season, It is noted on all other formations the QB continues to the outside.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1267269&pbp_id=10319692
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1267269&pbp_id=10319785
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1267269&pbp_id=10325179
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262419&pbp_id=8647666
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262419&pbp_id=8650541
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262418&pbp_id=7943188
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262418&pbp_id=7945761
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1266602&pbp_id=7456227
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1266602&pbp_id=7461175
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1266602&pbp_id=7455886

These are just a few of many samples. Sorry if this has been posted already.

This has been posted before and determined not a bug, but I don't mind taking another look since you have so many examples.

However, I'm not sure this changes anything really. I would like to know the QB's rushing slider for those in question, but if you notice when he runs to the trips side, he gets behind a wall of WR's and CB's that are locked up and the sensible cut is actually back to the inside because there is really no way for him to see the SS. Especially at a low level.

Now, if you notice in this replay you posted: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1267269&pbp_id=10325179

The QB is rolling to the "weaker" side (just two WR's) and actually does cut to the outside late in the run once he passes the first level of defenders. Hence my theory that it's more logical for the QB to cut inside when he's facing a wall of 6 players locked up with each other on the right side.

Not likely a bug.

Originally posted by VolBrian
This has been posted before and determined not a bug, but I don't mind taking another look since you have so many examples.

However, I'm not sure this changes anything really. I would like to know the QB's rushing slider for those in question, but if you notice when he runs to the trips side, he gets behind a wall of WR's and CB's that are locked up and the sensible cut is actually back to the inside because there is really no way for him to see the SS. Especially at a low level.

Now, if you notice in this replay you posted: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1267269&pbp_id=10325179

The QB is rolling to the "weaker" side (just two WR's) and actually does cut to the outside late in the run once he passes the first level of defenders. Hence my theory that it's more logical for the QB to cut inside when he's facing a wall of 6 players locked up with each other on the right side.

Not likely a bug.

In the play above the QB does break a little but the initial move to the inside still happened. Here are more samples and again there are no cuts to the inside in any other formation but 5wr. It may just be a coding error. You notice a quite a few of the samples given, the cut to the middle sometimes had an unblocked defender right there or even a defender it went by to cut back into. Regardless it is like a magnet drawing them to the middle.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1265146&pbp_id=3313867
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1265146&pbp_id=3313897 (notice it still cuts back into a defender it went by)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262408&pbp_id=5728119
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1262408&pbp_id=5730472
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1265163&pbp_id=4579238

Ok, I see what you mean with that. Do you happen to have the slider settings on the QB?

Also, I would like to see some examples of this from a higher level QB simply so I can rule out low-level shenanigans.

Gonna change to needs more info.

QB J Driscoll slider is 20 elusive.

Originally posted by MudBugs
QB J Driscoll slider is 20 elusive.

Thanks. I don't think that's enough to really be of any consequence to this issue, so now I'll troll for some higher level QB runs from 5 WR to narrow it down if possible. May take a little bit though.

I added some in for one of my higher lvl rushing QBs (which we ran one time) and even though the QB scored, it sure looked similar to the sucked in the middle runs as shown above:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1218197&pbp_id=11698824


EDIT:
Originally posted by Djmr

And heres the diagrams for the actual plays:

http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/145.gif
http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/146.gif

To me, the QB route ran matches the same route drawn up, when the QB reaches the end of the arrow on the play diagram he then moves inside. For plays where the QB runs out wider, the play diagrams show a wider route the QB takes. This is why I believe it could be working as intended, so Im sending this to Catch.

Well, if you take a look at the diagrams of all the outside QB runs you would notice the arrow pretty much looks the same

DOUBLE Edit Originally posted by Catch22
It's working as intended - possibly could use a revision but the play is doing what it is designed/drawn up to do..


Nice bullshit answer, sorry this play is broken regardless what you say.

Originally posted by MudBugs
I added some in for one of my higher lvl rushing QBs (which we ran one time) and even though the QB scored, it sure looked similar to the sucked in the middle runs as shown above:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1218197&pbp_id=11698824

Don't give out our secrets!!

PS. Voltz is running on Super Elusive.

Originally posted by MudBugs
I added some in for one of my higher lvl rushing QBs (which we ran one time) and even though the QB scored, it sure looked similar to the sucked in the middle runs as shown above:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1218197&pbp_id=11698824

Actually, I do think this is a similar cut to the lower level replays. Even if the CB is there, the cut still looks the same. I'm gonna mark this likely a bug as I believe it should get a look by QA if nothing else.

Pathing logic does look like it needs another look. It appears the QB continually cuts into a defender rather than away from them. Sending to QA for confirmation.

Originally posted by MudBugs
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1265146&pbp_id=3313897 (notice it still cuts back into a defender it went by)

This in particular seems egregiously bad. Does anyone have any replays of it actually working and going outside?

I think what is happening is the hot spots on the runs take him behind the wall of WRs, and then he has to start making decisions. It's nice that he can make the call to go inside or outside there based on what he sees, but it appears that if he doesn't really see a problem to either side, he cuts it inside, which is backwards - he should default to going wide and only cut in if there's a "problem". I'm not quite clear on how the pathing decisions are worked out at that stage of the run, though, and if that's a decision point that could be added just for these plays or if it would start impacting every run.

Originally posted by NiborRis
This in particular seems egregiously bad. Does anyone have any replays of it actually working and going outside?

I think what is happening is the hot spots on the runs take him behind the wall of WRs, and then he has to start making decisions. It's nice that he can make the call to go inside or outside there based on what he sees, but it appears that if he doesn't really see a problem to either side, he cuts it inside, which is backwards - he should default to going wide and only cut in if there's a "problem". I'm not quite clear on how the pathing decisions are worked out at that stage of the run, though, and if that's a decision point that could be added just for these plays or if it would start impacting every run.



What Nibor said.

It does look like the possible hotspots might even stop him and force him to run straight up the field and then make a decision.

I meant to add

Bug, first verification

So I'm adding that now. I think the play is bad enough that it should be considered buggy behavior. If we get some counter-examples of it working sometimes that would be interesting, though.

Ive been waiting to get some more examples (I know, like the first batch wasn't enough) to see if its the same for another and I found some:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1251185&pbp_id=11971131
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1251185&pbp_id=11969715

And heres the diagrams for the actual plays:

http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/145.gif
http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/146.gif

To me, the QB route ran matches the same route drawn up, when the QB reaches the end of the arrow on the play diagram he then moves inside. For plays where the QB runs out wider, the play diagrams show a wider route the QB takes. This is why I believe it could be working as intended, so Im sending this to Catch.

Originally posted by Djmr
Ive been waiting to get some more examples (I know, like the first batch wasn't enough) to see if its the same for another and I found some:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1251185&pbp_id=11971131
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1251185&pbp_id=11969715

And heres the diagrams for the actual plays:

http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/145.gif
http://goallineblitz.com/images/plays/146.gif

To me, the QB route ran matches the same route drawn up, when the QB reaches the end of the arrow on the play diagram he then moves inside. For plays where the QB runs out wider, the play diagrams show a wider route the QB takes. This is why I believe it could be working as intended, so Im sending this to Catch.

i agree w/ djmr here. It's a crappy play, but i think it's working as drawn up.