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Forum > Discuss GLB Issues With Catch22 > ISSUES DETERMINED NOT BUGS > strange pursuit pathing - ISSUE DETERMINED NOT A BUG
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blitz39
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1214706&pbp_id=2995102

the SS trailing the TE gives up at mid field. why? he starts zig zagging and just stops.
Edited by Stray Doug on Jun 7, 2010 08:26:58 (ISSUE DETERMINED NOT A BUG )
Edited by Djmr on Jun 7, 2010 04:22:14 (Not enough to file a bug report, opening a separate thread for discussion)
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 3, 2010 12:39:11 (changed title to better fit potential bug)
Edited by VolBrian on Jun 3, 2010 12:37:49 (Sent To QA)
Edited by Frog on Jun 3, 2010 12:35:03 (Changed to new terminology. Still related to filed bug #159)
 
VolBrian
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Looks to me like he just wasn't fast enough. He continues the pursuit, but gets outrun....
 
jeighdin
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looks like he just got outrun
 
Frog
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The SS is also under leveled. SS that couldn't keep up. Even the FS passes the SS as they run down field.



Edited by Frog on Jun 3, 2010 12:33:33
Edited by Frog on Jun 3, 2010 08:40:45
Edited by Frog on Jun 3, 2010 08:12:08
 
TheGreatPuma
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Does anyone know why the FS seems to be the only player in the play unaffected by the back and forth movement of the TE? I mean why are players 20 yards away running identically to the ball carrier instead of simply pursuing directly?
Edited by TheGreatPuma on Jun 3, 2010 09:21:26
 
Tarrant
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Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
Does anyone know why the FS seems to be the only player in the play unaffected by the back and forth movement of the TE? I mean why are players 20 yards away running identically to the ball carrier instead of simply pursuing directly?


That's a good point... it looks like all the defenders were hypnotized and swaying back and forth along with the SS. Looks pretty weird to me.
 
Gazeruth
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Looks like another case of the open field pathing problem.. just with a slower SS so he fell a lot more behind..

Could probably be linked in with this one: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4073286
 
VolBrian
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With the opinions of Gazeruth and Frog, I'm gonna send this to QA not because of the SS's chase, but the mentioned actions of the FS and chasing players.
 
robponce
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looks like low vision and agility combined with a weird pathing angle.

The FS had a good one, so it makes me think he had higher vision that the others. Perhaps more speed than the TE as well to take more of a direct route (not having to cut off the TE)
 
Frog
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IOriginally posted by robponce
looks like low vision and agility combined with a weird pathing angle.

The FS had a good one, so it makes me think he had higher vision that the others. Perhaps more speed than the TE as well to take more of a direct route (not having to cut off the TE)


I actually have the SS build. I'll send you a PM with it. I don't want to post his build with the agents approval.
 
kuaggie
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Originally posted by VolBrian
With the opinions of Gazeruth and Frog, I'm gonna send this to QA not because of the SS's chase, but the mentioned actions of the FS and chasing players.


changed title. The most concerning players are the two CBs and MLB- they are NOT taking anywhere close to the optimal path.

The defenders are to the left of the ball carrier, and move left, in the OPPOSITE direction of the ball carrier when the ball carrier moves left. The only time they should do this is when the ball carrier goes so far left that he crosses the defender in pursuit (goes from being to their right to being to their left, or vice versa). If anything, the defenders should change their angle of attack and how well they do it should depend on vision.

Bort needs to take a look at the pursuit algorithm as it looks like the defenders determine an angle of attack (or spot to attack to based on the player's speed) which, once it has been determined. has a 1:1 modification of the x-axis whenever the ball-carrier's x-axis changes. That doesn't work correctly in this instance.
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 3, 2010 12:46:26
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 3, 2010 12:45:58
Edited by kuaggie on Jun 3, 2010 12:45:25
 
Djmr
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I would like this sorted now but, I cant help but feel we need more than one replay. Theres definitely something wrong, but what exactly isn't really that 100% clear. For example - how come the FS is running fine whilst the CBs/MLB arent?
 
Stray Doug
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I agree that open-field pathing like this needs to be improved, but it's been this way for so long that I don't think it's really a bug (i.e., that it's not intended for the sim currently)... I just think this is how the chase logic was coded.

It seems to me more like a very good suggestion of something that should be improved (the open-field "chasing" algorithm) and ku makes some good suggestions as well as to how it could be changed (and more discussion of that on suggestion forum would be a good thing perhaps). But "some code that ought to be changed/improved" is not the same thing as a "bug", at least as far as we're concerned for GLB purposes (as I understand it).

I'd mark this not a bug, but it's a fuzzy enough area that I'd like one or two others to weigh in first.
 
MC_Hammer
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Originally posted by Stray Doug
I agree that open-field pathing like this needs to be improved, but it's been this way for so long that I don't think it's really a bug (i.e., that it's not intended for the sim currently)... I just think this is how the chase logic was coded.

It seems to me more like a very good suggestion of something that should be improved (the open-field "chasing" algorithm) and ku makes some good suggestions as well as to how it could be changed (and more discussion of that on suggestion forum would be a good thing perhaps). But "some code that ought to be changed/improved" is not the same thing as a "bug", at least as far as we're concerned for GLB purposes (as I understand it).

I'd mark this not a bug, but it's a fuzzy enough area that I'd like one or two others to weigh in first.


I am in agreement with the bolded part especially.
Also, I have changed build philosophies on my safeties over the last 15+ seasons and now place even more emphasis on vision than I used to (which was still pretty high) as far as building it up quicker than some other attributes.
I can't remember having seen any of my more recently built safeties (either FS or SS) ever having displayed this type of behavior past say level 10.
 
NiborRis
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Originally posted by kuaggie
Bort needs to take a look at the pursuit algorithm as it looks like the defenders determine an angle of attack (or spot to attack to based on the player's speed) which, once it has been determined. has a 1:1 modification of the x-axis whenever the ball-carrier's x-axis changes. That doesn't work correctly in this instance.


No, I don't think that's how it works. What happens is that the Defender(D) is mapping out an intercept course, and as the ball carrier changes his path from moving right to moving left, D is seeing a huge swing in intercept point, as he's not going to catch him anytime soon.
On top of that, I think vision checks are used to introduce errors in intercept point, and when the intercept point is very far away, small vision mistakes can add up to a BIG miscalculation in attack angle. If that's true, then it might be an improvement to change the vision checks to adjust the angle of the turn by small amounts rather than move the intercept point, but that doesn't work as well for things like attempting to intercept/deflect a pass, I think.

I'm not *overly* worried about it for the MLB and the CB, because in this case the TE is going faster than they are and they just can't catch him. Perhaps better logic could be put into place for pursuit from behind when the defender won't catch the ball carrier before the endzone - something like just moving directly for the ball carrier might look better - but that's mostly just going to try to make it look smoother. In fact, all the pursuit here is slower than the TE, so we're probably in "pursuit code does odd things when you won't catch the ball carrier" type of bug, but really bad movement behavior is still a bug, I think, and should be improved, even if it won't impact the result of the play.

 
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