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Forum > Game Changes Discussion > Proposed Changes > GLB Revised Training System Changes
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BP
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Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by BP


I don't like the changes..I'll be honest. The reason is for all of my players I have Virtual Build plans, some that I've been following for over 1 year, they are all going to be garbage next season.

Do I think the changes will make player building more interesting? probably..it's more intricate and interesting. Am I interesting in building new players and learning it? not so much..I've been here 2 years and really like THIS product. I don't want to start the learning curve over again. Am I interested in trying to salvage my Virtual Plans to fit the new system..not really.

That's the problem, it's not even the changes for the most part (but there are a few VERY bad ones..most are ok though), it's the fact that it fouls up everything I've put time and money into. I think that's the problem that alot of people are having with this whole thing.

New training system? ok
New owner responsbilities? ok

Do you think the CURRENT owners are interested in the NEW responsibilities? a good % aren't.
Do you think people who have dots on a plan are discouraged? yep

So yeah, I understand..Bort is trying to advance the product and all, and it's probably better. But it's also very different and he's going to have to expect those of us who BOUGHT the current product aren't going to ALL be happy and alot of us will leave.

I hope his Iapp is ready and he's going to advertise. But I will predict, right now..A HUGE drop in flex purchases and a HUGE increase in available teams next year. If he's going to change the product it's on him, but he's going to need to find alot of new customers to buy it..cuz alot of the old ones just kind of got screwed.


This is what I find hilarious...you have a plan and these new changes just made your player ultimately a ton better than the plan you are currently running towards. Instead of embracing the change and thinking about the great possibilities for your players, you would rather just have been average. Funny stuff.


My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch
 
Warlock
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Originally posted by OttawaShane
Do you really think people pecking away on an iPhone or iPad app while waiting at the airport are going to be putting the in-depth thinking into this game that the new training system will require? Really? The game currently has the hardest of the hard core, and a lot of us think the new system is insanely unintuitive and pointless. What do you think the mass market will think, the people raised on simple stuff like Farmville?

Here's my general take on where things are and what they could have been.



Firstly, it would have helped matters a lot if the changes weren't presented with such a "take it or leave it" type announcement. Clearly there were pretty major flaws in the original schemes, otherwise "take it or leave it" wouldn't have so quickly become "ok, we'll listen" - the damage was done with the original tone, however, and there are still large elements of the changes that need rethinking IMO. Just because people focussed more on finances and training than coaches doesn't mean that the coaching thing is accepted, nor does it mean that both training and coaching don't need more changes.

Here are my specific points right now:



Complexity


No matter how well you do the UI, there is little in the training that is intuitive. Thank god you got rid of "resource units", I frankly can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea to add another form of GLB currency. That aside, I suggest that you include a "training guru" function, a clickable option (maybe it could even cost a bonus token every time you use it) that tells the user what steps are available, what happens if "A" is done instead of "C", and reminds the user about what they can unlock soon, etc, etc.

Of course, its a sign that things are way to complicated that this is needed, but I think it is. I would ask the question about why this wasn't rolled out in a more simple way with but I've done enough head shaking about the horrible first announcement as it is and want to look forward.


Coaching

Why can coaches affect the opposition? One of the reasons for the riot when coaches was rolled out a few months ago was the ability of coaches to mess with their opponent's builds, and no matter how you slice it that's what's happening here. Please drop this part, and please make sure there is lots of testing done on coaching before its rolled out, and let's get some results actually published, things have been a little weak in that area for a long time.

This is notwithstanding the feeling that coaches are just a lot of clicking and a bit of real world $$ without a lot of payback for the user other than the need to keep up with the Joneses. Its like you're charging each team owner $10 real dollars to make sure their offence gets to play with a fully inflated ball. "Yeah, but you don't *have* to buy the game ball" is a crappy answer.


Training - Fun

The training changes in particular are just so much work - a lot of math, and no language or symbolism relating the clicking to what happens in football. There's also the question of why it was done like this. Some alternatives:

1. Have an offseason training mode where the player could be trained on higher intensity and with several attributes being trained at once. Could use game cash to hire a training guru, with off-season gains being high enough to actually change a player's build/effectiveness in a noticeable way.

2. Game cash to purchase things like home gyms, personal trainers, nutritional supplements, etc, etc, to give a % boost to training effectiveness, could have done this with bonus tokens

But no, instead we got terminology and process that only an engineer could love.


3. Fun - General

So users want more to do? Its not like there haven't been two longstanding suggestions on this

1. skill competition, rankings - see where your dot ranks in the 40, 225 bench, etc, etc, etc...offseason fun, and could be used as part of recruiting, and, unlike mini-helmet day boosting morale, this actually has an relation to real football.

2. improve the SIm...I know this is being done, but there is still a lot that needs to be improved

3. Improve the replays - watching the dots is one of the most fun parts of GLB - at least for those teams not stuck in an endless cycle of blowouts one way or another. So why not enhance the replay system. The new animations are a solid step, let's do more.

4. enhanced player tactics. An LB reading run first on 3rd and 17? Really, GLB...really?

Anyway, I'm not going to threaten to ragequit...I'll stick around to see how the new training system looks/feels and whether it seems like it will take two seasons to catch up with the people who already have their spreadsheets lined up to advise on the One True Path to building the perfect dot. But if GLB Inc. thinks they've found some magic formula here for a rollout or for drawing new users, well good for you - I think you're wrong, but then again I'm just a paying customer.

Competition

While the claim is that some of these changes are supposed to help competition, at worst I'm dubious about that outcome, and at my most optimistic I think it will take several seasons before that happens. But in the meantime, too many users are "enjoying" leagues where blowouts are the norm and close games are virtually non-existent. What happened to grouping teams by effective levels? Or was that another big idea like fame that has just quietly slipped into near-irrelevance?

Competition is the number one issue facing GLB, I certainly hope admins see that. Whether the changes announced are enough will remain to be seen, but I would certainly have preferred to see staff brainpower exclusively devoted to that problem and addressing it immediately, rather than working out 3 major changes so flawed that they immediately had to be changed despite the "here they are, these changes are happening, no tinkering allowed" tone of the original announcements.


Good post. Unfortunately, that's what happens when you have a code monkey and a poker player running things... where's the developers or advisers with actual football experience. There's tons of differences between being a fan, playing and even coaching football. How about some people with experience developing gaming systems? Where's the geeky kid who played D&D from the time he could walk until 40 years later (whose probably still a virgin FWIW)?
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by BP
My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch


I think your current player models as compared to the possibilities are blah...but congrats on missing the point. You surely are good at that.

It was a good attempt at a turnaround...unfortunately you made zero sense.
 
tragula
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Originally posted by BP
My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch


9+ old builds will not be deeply affected by this. You can stay on truck with multiple training. In the worse case you will need to trash a late season of training toward extra BTs. It is the young dots that will need to work harder (due to the raised cost of BTs).
 
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Originally posted by Landry Skins
anything to stop scores being ridiculous. A team with:

Tom Brady
Adrian Peterson
Randy Moss
Andre Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Leanard Weaver
Ryan Clady
Joe Thomas
Logan Mankins
Mike Iupati
Nick Mangold

on offense

would at max score 60 points against a defense with the worst defensive players in the league and we have teams with basically even players with the opposition losing by 77? For example look at my team and then the Happy Endings game. How could we lose by 77??? To be honest that is small compared to some of the blowouts in GLB. At max a blowout should be 40, 50 points difference. Not 500.


better defensive dots...
Edited by Timetoshine-Beta on Apr 19, 2010 13:22:31
 
Plankton
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With the add an SA feature, can a non-archetyped player add an SA, or is it only for archetyped players?
 
bhall43
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realism strikes again.
 
BP
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Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by BP

My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch


I think your current player models as compared to the possibilities are blah...but congrats on missing the point. You surely are good at that.

It was a good attempt at a turnaround...unfortunately you made zero sense.


Or did I make ALOT of sense? hmmmm...

My current players vs. the possibilities now? maybe...probably better players can be built now from the ground up with Archetypes and now this, I'm not arguing that. Can my current old players follow their plans? nope...right now their goal is to score a third piece of AEQ and upgrade it.

With the mid level and low level guys...there's no point, they are lost in their builds and won't be as good as new players, makes sense to not continue with them.

 
BP
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Originally posted by tragula
Originally posted by BP

My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch


9+ old builds will not be deeply affected by this. You can stay on truck with multiple training. In the worse case you will need to trash a late season of training toward extra BTs. It is the young dots that will need to work harder (due to the raised cost of BTs).


Agreed, my older players aren't going to be effected really..their training gains them very little and the extra BT's to trade in for EQ upgrades are cool.
 
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Originally posted by BP
My dots aren't average at all. What I find hilarious is that you think that someone making a plan and sticking to it and making dominant players is blah..but throwing a ton of variables at them 9+ months into their build should be embraced.

Maybe you just make average dots and you see this new thing as a big box of shiny new stuff, those of us who had a plan and were building awesome dots aren't so excited. You kind of just outed yourself...ouch


I'm sorry but are you not aware what game this is?

This is GoalLineBlitz BETA.

Did you really think things weren't going to change?

IMO you should train up your vision so you can see stuff like this coming.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by BP
Or did I make ALOT of sense? hmmmm...

My current players vs. the possibilities now? maybe...probably better players can be built now from the ground up with Archetypes and now this, I'm not arguing that. Can my current old players follow their plans? nope...right now their goal is to score a third piece of AEQ and upgrade it.

With the mid level and low level guys...there's no point, they are lost in their builds and won't be as good as new players, makes sense to not continue with them.



eh...i dont know. Your level 61 and 49 should reap huge benefits. Your highest level guys can only get better from it. I would have to go through the new build models from the ground up to know how deeply your 2 lower level guys are effected.
 
Dpride59
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The players whoreally get fucked are the ones who took 2-3 atts to extreme heights, and planned on training those lesser atts later in their career, while capped balanced builds can start massing bt, these high sp builds will need to train for% gains to finalize their build, which will likely mean they won't ever have as many bt as the balanced builds
 
tragula
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Originally posted by bhall43
eh...i dont know. Your level 61 and 49 should reap huge benefits. Your highest level guys can only get better from it. I would have to go through the new build models from the ground up to know how deeply your 2 lower level guys are effected.


Why should level 49/61 players gain from the new training system ?

From what I seen the new training system main affect is increasing the price of BTs. There are some new option for enhanced training, but that likely important only for the earlier players trying to maximize ALGs.

Do I miss something ?
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by David Stern
The players whoreally get fucked are the ones who took 2-3 atts to extreme heights, and planned on training those lesser atts later in their career, while capped balanced builds can start massing bt, these high sp builds will need to train for% gains to finalize their build, which will likely mean they won't ever have as many bt as the balanced builds


Hmm..i can see the ones that took 3 att's to extreme heights being screwed if they are below level 55 or so. I dont think the people that took 2 att's to extreme heights are screwed...unless you are talking super maximum heights for 2 attributes.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by tragula
Why should level 49/61 players gain from the new training system ?

From what I seen the new training system main affect is increasing the price of BTs. There are some new option for enhanced training, but that likely important only for the earlier players trying to maximize ALGs.

Do I miss something ?


I see it.
 
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