This is a summary of a big thread we have on the test server where some of the issues we are seeing in pre-season games is being discussed. Thanks to jethroz for taking the time to provide a very large summary:
Originally posted by PP
I do believe elusives need a bit of a bump. What I was concerned over seemed to play out in that the PBs now seem to be the best at running the outside plays, better than combos (leaning towards elusives) and far better than elusives. In the 3 games I watched, the elusives did produce the occassional big play, but were stuffed far more often than not. That said, PBs & combos (heavy on the PBside, just with speed) did this enough to make them a much better outside option..
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116440&pbp_id=293188
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116432&pbp_id=302987
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116468&pbp_id=302675
In those situations, the elusives just got killed time after time in the 3 games I watched, and I could link 10 more plays where the combos & PBs did this instead.
I love the way WRs are getting open more, but the DBs/LBs need more of a bump to PDs to compensate for it. They won more than last ssn, but still probably need to win 10% more yet (when in good coverage)
Suggestions:
bump elusive fakes 10-20% and come up with something for Spin to help elusives more, but not help combos & PBs more than it currently does
Make it easier for DBs/LBs to win their rolls when in good coverage. they need to win at least 10% more when they are in good coverage
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
In response to PP...
For elusives, I think it would be cool to like, make them more difficult to read rather than increase the ankle-breaking. The problem seems to be that regardless of the HB, they get SWARMED before they make it back to the line Not really sure how that could be done, besides maybe making them more difficult to read based on like, their elusive slider, agility, and carrying? That setup would also help real elusive HB's more than the current "130 speed, 70 agility" type of elusive.
Like...make the reaction time for defenders worse vs a running play with a high elusive RB? That could be possible I suppose. Wouldn't be that hard.
So long as it was just while they were behind the LOS, that might work. By far the biggest problem I see is that they're just sitting ducks behind the LOS compared to the PBs and high brk tkls Combo backs. The d gets there no less against the tkl breakers as they head outside, but they just shrug them off so much more that they're currently far more effective than the elusives on outside runs. Once the elusives start heading up field, they aren't bad. Getting them there against reasonable Ds is the problem. Catch the D leaving it wide open and elusives are currently great.
The only issue I do see with this is that D guys are very likely to bitck up a storm if their back 7 starts reacting slower, and it's only on outside runs to HBs. On the flip side, I think they'd be more tolerant of elusive shrinking their dots in the backfield more.
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Deathblade
Pump Fake seems a bit ridiculous occasionally...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116480&pbp_id=304411
SS bites, and runs 10 yards the wrong way?
Yeah....the majority of times you can't even notice the impact of the D dots, but the extreme cases are a bit extreme. Maybe not cut down the amount of extreme cases at all, but place a 5 yd ceiling on it, leaving everything under that the same.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Direct snap play already has the least delay possible. The back requires one tick to process the "control ball" command.
Is it really only 1 tick? I counted 3 on the play I linked.
yep, 1 tick (10 frames per sec)
Then he has to get moving, of course.
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Like...make the reaction time for defenders worse vs a running play with a high elusive RB? That could be possible I suppose. Wouldn't be that hard.
Well, not a hard, flat delay...more like a "slightly increased vision checks", so it is still counterable by high amounts of vision (which at the same time, also counters fakes). Maybe scaled so that players with 70-80 vision are delayed a tick or two? The reason I added agility and carrying into it is because those are "elusive" abilities, and they would also help to not make low levels completely broken like if it were totally dependent on the slider (1-2 ticks added in WL, 6-7 ticks added in peewee would be brutal).
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Originally posted by Bort
Smoothed out that Pro Set play. Also, pretty sure I fixed the QB rollout play. I imported the QB posted and was unable to reproduce with an updated definition.
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by PP
Yeah....the majority of times you can't even notice the impact of the D dots, but the extreme cases are a bit extreme. Maybe not cut down the amount of extreme cases at all, but place a 5 yd ceiling on it, leaving everything under that the same.
The same effect could be achieved by make the "wtf am I doing? he didn't pass the ball" check gradually get easier?
---------edit to avoid quad-posting--------
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101&pbp_id=451024
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101&pbp_id=451017
Pro Set Slam looks a lot smoother now...didn't get huge ypc in that game, but the play looks a lot smoother now
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Well, not to seem argumentative...but in the play I linked, once the HB gets the ball, you can click the forward button 6 times before he moves.
Isn't each forward click half a tick?
Yea, it is, but like I said the play has no delay in it. Can't reduce it much beyond zero, lol
I'm thinking it has to do with the pathing now.
I've looked at it ran from several different HBs now, and all of them seem to wait 3ish "clicks", then they kind of take a step towards the QB, then wait a click, then run forward. They seem to be "lingering" after the 1 tick "control ball" thing.
I dunno, guess I'll leave it be.
I dunno, I just ran some tests on my machine on it (because you mentioned it) and he moved straight ahead right away. Maybe it's running style related?
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Hmm, that could be interesting.
I could probably apply a short reaction delay for the entire defense on any cut > some degree value, actually. Maybe allow a chance to avoid it through some very hard vision check.
I've suggested that before
Can't remember which thread. I think scaling depending on the angle would be more functional though? Like, 90 degree cut is a huge delay, and 10 is small?
Would also make more sense, imo, if it was in relation to the defender. A safety backed up 20 yards isn't going to be super confused about which direction to go if the HB makes a cut...since the angle is still relatively the same, but closer players, the cut would require more of a change of direction.
Edit: And instead of like a "fake" delay where the dot stops, would they keep moving in the same direction similar to the new passing fakes?
I just envision like, an elusive at the sideline, with a defender closing in on him, he makes a quick cut/fake thing, and cuts inside around the defender before he can react. As it is, if he cuts inside, the defender instantly reacts and just tackles him
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense. Not sure if the distance scale is needed, tbh. He's going to have time to catch up and adjust after the fact. Might end up making those long paths more smooth, tbh.
Originally posted by Bort
Already coded lol, that was easy. Now have to test and adjust
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense. Not sure if the distance scale is needed, tbh. He's going to have time to catch up and adjust after the fact. Might end up making those long paths more smooth, tbh.
Well, the distance thing was just an example. Relativity to the position of the defender would makes it's own distance scale.
Like say...
X = ball carrier, Y = defender...also imagine that the angles are a 45 degree angle.
Y
_\
__\
__/
_/
X
In this example, Y is running with his hips pointing 45 degrees to the southeast, and HB is running with his hips to 45 northeast
Now lets say a tick or two go by
Y
_\
\
_X
The ball carrier makes a 90 degree cut (from northeast to northwest), the defender has to turn at minimum a 90 degree angle to face the ball carrier...so a higher vision/agility is needed.
Now say.... on the same tick, there's a defender Z
Z
|
|
|
Y
_\
\
_X
Defender Z doesn't have to rotate his body nearly as much, since he is further away, creating a smaller angle (it's still mostly vertical).
Ah, I getcha. Angle relative to the farther guy's vector is smaller, assuming he's not heading completely the wrong way. That way you're getting the severity of the cut from the defenders perspective instead of the offensive guy's perspective.
Was also thinking it would make sense from how "hard" the cut is.
I mean, even if the HB makes a 90 degree cut, if he loses 80% of his speed, it really isn't THAT hard of a cut.
However, if he only loses 5% of his speed, that's pretty brutal. It would help emphasize agility a little bit more, possibly.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
I guess it would also make sense for defenders behind the HB to not be effected as much...otherwise you get the tecmo effect where it is the best option to just keep zigzagging when you are running for a TD
Oh yeah, I've been messing with ball carrier angle selection again, so you might notice some difference there with my upload. Trying to allow more cutbacks inside, but meh so far.
Originally posted by Bort
Also, I was seeing the largest effect of the cut delay on kick returns. Very obvious there, since defense is frequently flying down the field at full speed, and the returner is fast and agile.
--------------------------
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Spin changes may be too much
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451441
Running on 99 elusive
Also, I'm assuming you uploaded those changes, since ypc went from 1.7 to 4.9. Now that we got that assumed, I think you can see it's effect on the LDE in that play, after the spins, he runs the wrong way for a tick or two.
Changes look decent, I guess. Mostly what I'm seeing is that they are more likely to "sneak" through the line of scrimmage when there's a cluster of players, and the safeties are a lot less "IN YOUR FACE BITCH".
Also, this play is HOT
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451478
Almost puts a non-blinky fake on the LOLB here, but LOLB recovers with a diving tackle
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451516
Holy shit...what's scary is it almost works
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451556
Oh yeah, the spin change got uploaded earlier. Might be too much, I agree. I will wait for others' review and maybe a few more games before passing judgement.
I'm thinking Spin is far too much on KR/PR.
It seems fairly strong in today's games...test that catch just ran, half a dozen KRs were returned for TD's, littered with Spin.
Yep, was just about to post - can we turn that off for returns or turn it down to half of what it is now on returns?
Yeah, can do. I think the bonus should be 3 instead of 4 in general too.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
One note so far though, WR blocking is still *psyduck*
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2102&pbp_id=451248
Have any idea on how to fix that WR thing?
It happened quite a few times in the game. Seems to happen if the CB isn't playing man up on the WR, and isn't lined up right on top of him.
Not particularly, except for maybe putting special WR block CB's first code. Of course, then if the CB is nearby and there's a LB covering or something him, he'll skip him for the CB.
actually, just make him ignore LBs and DL unless they are covering him in man?
The only way to get an LB out there is cover the WR in man
Hm, that would probably work.
How bout: put guy covering you first, followed by CB's, followed by LB's, followed by FS, SS, DE, DT, NT
Have to worry about zone coverage, too.
SS on the line, CB acting as safety...would he ignore the SS?
Yep. Unless he's covering him. Hrm.
Maybe for WR's outside the tackles + a bit, only look outside the tackles for players to block, unless there is nobody? They'd likely hit the closest CB or SS or whatever then?
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Catch22
This was pretty:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451828
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451861
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451933
Agree. Although maybe those sharp cuts should have more speed reduction. Even some of the most agile players in the history of the game came to almost a complete stop if reversing direction, or slow down quite a bit on huge cuts.
Watch this highlight reel to get a picture of what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4TAtP5l-jg&feature=related
I'd consider Reggie an INSANELY agile player, and even he slows down considerable amounts on incredibly sharp cuts. The sharper the cut, the more he slows.
Yeah, I kinda agree there Staz. I think I never really accounted for the extreme levels of speed/agility and quick cut, etc. that some people would push for. Granted, whenever there is a big sideways cut, like the guy going directly sideways, the slowdown is pretty extreme.
You're probably looking for more of the stutter stepping, quick juke explosion type moves. Lots of RB owners seem to think their guy should never stop or stutter step, though...
Those guys also think their cuts should break the defenders ankles and let their RB blow past em. Any player looking to shift direction quickly needs to:
1. Reduce their momentum
2. Change Direction
3. Accelerate
Higher agility makes the smaller cuts quicker, but with major cuts, you still need to redirect all the momentum. This should impact defenders AND ball carriers. The ball carrier has the advantage, since he's acting and the defender is REacting, and THATS where the elusive ball carrier gets the results.
What angle would you define as a major cut? 75 degrees? 45 degrees? 90 degrees?
Right now if you try to turn more than 75 degrees, you automatically get your velocity vector chopped in half, no matter what your cut ability is. For 90 it's another tier, where it cuts it down to like 20%. Beyond that and you have to slow down first before even attempting the turn.
Defenders tend to not bother to make cuts when far away, and just keep running full speed with adjustments along the way. When they get close, they play by those same rules.
I don't think dots should ALWAYS run at full Speed. You often see defenders slow up if they think a ball carrier will make a cut.
Initially, I thought of a % reduction from top speed per degree cut, but I don't know that it would be a great idea.
.5% Reduction of Top Speed per 1°
If you're running at full speed, and you make a 30° cut, you're reduced to 85% speed, and have to accelerate immediately after the cut (cut length based on agility?)
Agility could impact the amount of time it takes you to decelerate to that speed, or whether you're even able to make the cut, and accelerate out of the cut.
Originally posted by Bort
How 'bout just a basic increase to the amount of speed lost on cuts, across the board? I've uploaded a version with that so we can check it out.
Originally posted by PP
I do believe elusives need a bit of a bump. What I was concerned over seemed to play out in that the PBs now seem to be the best at running the outside plays, better than combos (leaning towards elusives) and far better than elusives. In the 3 games I watched, the elusives did produce the occassional big play, but were stuffed far more often than not. That said, PBs & combos (heavy on the PBside, just with speed) did this enough to make them a much better outside option..
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116440&pbp_id=293188
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116432&pbp_id=302987
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116468&pbp_id=302675
In those situations, the elusives just got killed time after time in the 3 games I watched, and I could link 10 more plays where the combos & PBs did this instead.
I love the way WRs are getting open more, but the DBs/LBs need more of a bump to PDs to compensate for it. They won more than last ssn, but still probably need to win 10% more yet (when in good coverage)
Suggestions:
bump elusive fakes 10-20% and come up with something for Spin to help elusives more, but not help combos & PBs more than it currently does
Make it easier for DBs/LBs to win their rolls when in good coverage. they need to win at least 10% more when they are in good coverage
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
In response to PP...
For elusives, I think it would be cool to like, make them more difficult to read rather than increase the ankle-breaking. The problem seems to be that regardless of the HB, they get SWARMED before they make it back to the line Not really sure how that could be done, besides maybe making them more difficult to read based on like, their elusive slider, agility, and carrying? That setup would also help real elusive HB's more than the current "130 speed, 70 agility" type of elusive.
Like...make the reaction time for defenders worse vs a running play with a high elusive RB? That could be possible I suppose. Wouldn't be that hard.
So long as it was just while they were behind the LOS, that might work. By far the biggest problem I see is that they're just sitting ducks behind the LOS compared to the PBs and high brk tkls Combo backs. The d gets there no less against the tkl breakers as they head outside, but they just shrug them off so much more that they're currently far more effective than the elusives on outside runs. Once the elusives start heading up field, they aren't bad. Getting them there against reasonable Ds is the problem. Catch the D leaving it wide open and elusives are currently great.
The only issue I do see with this is that D guys are very likely to bitck up a storm if their back 7 starts reacting slower, and it's only on outside runs to HBs. On the flip side, I think they'd be more tolerant of elusive shrinking their dots in the backfield more.
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Deathblade
Pump Fake seems a bit ridiculous occasionally...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1116480&pbp_id=304411
SS bites, and runs 10 yards the wrong way?
Yeah....the majority of times you can't even notice the impact of the D dots, but the extreme cases are a bit extreme. Maybe not cut down the amount of extreme cases at all, but place a 5 yd ceiling on it, leaving everything under that the same.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Direct snap play already has the least delay possible. The back requires one tick to process the "control ball" command.
Is it really only 1 tick? I counted 3 on the play I linked.
yep, 1 tick (10 frames per sec)
Then he has to get moving, of course.
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Like...make the reaction time for defenders worse vs a running play with a high elusive RB? That could be possible I suppose. Wouldn't be that hard.
Well, not a hard, flat delay...more like a "slightly increased vision checks", so it is still counterable by high amounts of vision (which at the same time, also counters fakes). Maybe scaled so that players with 70-80 vision are delayed a tick or two? The reason I added agility and carrying into it is because those are "elusive" abilities, and they would also help to not make low levels completely broken like if it were totally dependent on the slider (1-2 ticks added in WL, 6-7 ticks added in peewee would be brutal).
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Originally posted by Bort
Smoothed out that Pro Set play. Also, pretty sure I fixed the QB rollout play. I imported the QB posted and was unable to reproduce with an updated definition.
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by PP
Yeah....the majority of times you can't even notice the impact of the D dots, but the extreme cases are a bit extreme. Maybe not cut down the amount of extreme cases at all, but place a 5 yd ceiling on it, leaving everything under that the same.
The same effect could be achieved by make the "wtf am I doing? he didn't pass the ball" check gradually get easier?
---------edit to avoid quad-posting--------
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101&pbp_id=451024
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101&pbp_id=451017
Pro Set Slam looks a lot smoother now...didn't get huge ypc in that game, but the play looks a lot smoother now
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Though honestly, I think that is a pretty huge problem with elusives in general...when they cut, the defense instantly reacts...making any cutting detrimental.
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Well, not to seem argumentative...but in the play I linked, once the HB gets the ball, you can click the forward button 6 times before he moves.
Isn't each forward click half a tick?
Yea, it is, but like I said the play has no delay in it. Can't reduce it much beyond zero, lol
I'm thinking it has to do with the pathing now.
I've looked at it ran from several different HBs now, and all of them seem to wait 3ish "clicks", then they kind of take a step towards the QB, then wait a click, then run forward. They seem to be "lingering" after the 1 tick "control ball" thing.
I dunno, guess I'll leave it be.
I dunno, I just ran some tests on my machine on it (because you mentioned it) and he moved straight ahead right away. Maybe it's running style related?
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
They have too much damn agility. Low level guys can't react that quickly, and they get blown by on elusive moves because they can't stop on a dime.
Gives me an idea, though: on man pass coverage, defenders have a delay queue that fills up over time so they become one or two or more steps behind in their reaction. Wonder if I could manage something similar for tacklers, or if it would even work?
Hmm, that could be interesting.
I could probably apply a short reaction delay for the entire defense on any cut > some degree value, actually. Maybe allow a chance to avoid it through some very hard vision check.
I've suggested that before
Can't remember which thread. I think scaling depending on the angle would be more functional though? Like, 90 degree cut is a huge delay, and 10 is small?
Would also make more sense, imo, if it was in relation to the defender. A safety backed up 20 yards isn't going to be super confused about which direction to go if the HB makes a cut...since the angle is still relatively the same, but closer players, the cut would require more of a change of direction.
Edit: And instead of like a "fake" delay where the dot stops, would they keep moving in the same direction similar to the new passing fakes?
I just envision like, an elusive at the sideline, with a defender closing in on him, he makes a quick cut/fake thing, and cuts inside around the defender before he can react. As it is, if he cuts inside, the defender instantly reacts and just tackles him
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense. Not sure if the distance scale is needed, tbh. He's going to have time to catch up and adjust after the fact. Might end up making those long paths more smooth, tbh.
Originally posted by Bort
Already coded lol, that was easy. Now have to test and adjust
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense. Not sure if the distance scale is needed, tbh. He's going to have time to catch up and adjust after the fact. Might end up making those long paths more smooth, tbh.
Well, the distance thing was just an example. Relativity to the position of the defender would makes it's own distance scale.
Like say...
X = ball carrier, Y = defender...also imagine that the angles are a 45 degree angle.
Y
_\
__\
__/
_/
X
In this example, Y is running with his hips pointing 45 degrees to the southeast, and HB is running with his hips to 45 northeast
Now lets say a tick or two go by
Y
_\
\
_X
The ball carrier makes a 90 degree cut (from northeast to northwest), the defender has to turn at minimum a 90 degree angle to face the ball carrier...so a higher vision/agility is needed.
Now say.... on the same tick, there's a defender Z
Z
|
|
|
Y
_\
\
_X
Defender Z doesn't have to rotate his body nearly as much, since he is further away, creating a smaller angle (it's still mostly vertical).
Ah, I getcha. Angle relative to the farther guy's vector is smaller, assuming he's not heading completely the wrong way. That way you're getting the severity of the cut from the defenders perspective instead of the offensive guy's perspective.
Was also thinking it would make sense from how "hard" the cut is.
I mean, even if the HB makes a 90 degree cut, if he loses 80% of his speed, it really isn't THAT hard of a cut.
However, if he only loses 5% of his speed, that's pretty brutal. It would help emphasize agility a little bit more, possibly.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
I guess it would also make sense for defenders behind the HB to not be effected as much...otherwise you get the tecmo effect where it is the best option to just keep zigzagging when you are running for a TD
Oh yeah, I've been messing with ball carrier angle selection again, so you might notice some difference there with my upload. Trying to allow more cutbacks inside, but meh so far.
Originally posted by Bort
Also, I was seeing the largest effect of the cut delay on kick returns. Very obvious there, since defense is frequently flying down the field at full speed, and the returner is fast and agile.
--------------------------
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Spin changes may be too much
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451441
Running on 99 elusive
Also, I'm assuming you uploaded those changes, since ypc went from 1.7 to 4.9. Now that we got that assumed, I think you can see it's effect on the LDE in that play, after the spins, he runs the wrong way for a tick or two.
Changes look decent, I guess. Mostly what I'm seeing is that they are more likely to "sneak" through the line of scrimmage when there's a cluster of players, and the safeties are a lot less "IN YOUR FACE BITCH".
Also, this play is HOT
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451478
Almost puts a non-blinky fake on the LOLB here, but LOLB recovers with a diving tackle
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451516
Holy shit...what's scary is it almost works
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2103&pbp_id=451556
Oh yeah, the spin change got uploaded earlier. Might be too much, I agree. I will wait for others' review and maybe a few more games before passing judgement.
I'm thinking Spin is far too much on KR/PR.
It seems fairly strong in today's games...test that catch just ran, half a dozen KRs were returned for TD's, littered with Spin.
Yep, was just about to post - can we turn that off for returns or turn it down to half of what it is now on returns?
Yeah, can do. I think the bonus should be 3 instead of 4 in general too.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
One note so far though, WR blocking is still *psyduck*
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2102&pbp_id=451248
Have any idea on how to fix that WR thing?
It happened quite a few times in the game. Seems to happen if the CB isn't playing man up on the WR, and isn't lined up right on top of him.
Not particularly, except for maybe putting special WR block CB's first code. Of course, then if the CB is nearby and there's a LB covering or something him, he'll skip him for the CB.
actually, just make him ignore LBs and DL unless they are covering him in man?
The only way to get an LB out there is cover the WR in man
Hm, that would probably work.
How bout: put guy covering you first, followed by CB's, followed by LB's, followed by FS, SS, DE, DT, NT
Have to worry about zone coverage, too.
SS on the line, CB acting as safety...would he ignore the SS?
Yep. Unless he's covering him. Hrm.
Maybe for WR's outside the tackles + a bit, only look outside the tackles for players to block, unless there is nobody? They'd likely hit the closest CB or SS or whatever then?
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by Catch22
This was pretty:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451828
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451861
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2105&pbp_id=451933
Agree. Although maybe those sharp cuts should have more speed reduction. Even some of the most agile players in the history of the game came to almost a complete stop if reversing direction, or slow down quite a bit on huge cuts.
Watch this highlight reel to get a picture of what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4TAtP5l-jg&feature=related
I'd consider Reggie an INSANELY agile player, and even he slows down considerable amounts on incredibly sharp cuts. The sharper the cut, the more he slows.
Yeah, I kinda agree there Staz. I think I never really accounted for the extreme levels of speed/agility and quick cut, etc. that some people would push for. Granted, whenever there is a big sideways cut, like the guy going directly sideways, the slowdown is pretty extreme.
You're probably looking for more of the stutter stepping, quick juke explosion type moves. Lots of RB owners seem to think their guy should never stop or stutter step, though...
Those guys also think their cuts should break the defenders ankles and let their RB blow past em. Any player looking to shift direction quickly needs to:
1. Reduce their momentum
2. Change Direction
3. Accelerate
Higher agility makes the smaller cuts quicker, but with major cuts, you still need to redirect all the momentum. This should impact defenders AND ball carriers. The ball carrier has the advantage, since he's acting and the defender is REacting, and THATS where the elusive ball carrier gets the results.
What angle would you define as a major cut? 75 degrees? 45 degrees? 90 degrees?
Right now if you try to turn more than 75 degrees, you automatically get your velocity vector chopped in half, no matter what your cut ability is. For 90 it's another tier, where it cuts it down to like 20%. Beyond that and you have to slow down first before even attempting the turn.
Defenders tend to not bother to make cuts when far away, and just keep running full speed with adjustments along the way. When they get close, they play by those same rules.
I don't think dots should ALWAYS run at full Speed. You often see defenders slow up if they think a ball carrier will make a cut.
Initially, I thought of a % reduction from top speed per degree cut, but I don't know that it would be a great idea.
.5% Reduction of Top Speed per 1°
If you're running at full speed, and you make a 30° cut, you're reduced to 85% speed, and have to accelerate immediately after the cut (cut length based on agility?)
Agility could impact the amount of time it takes you to decelerate to that speed, or whether you're even able to make the cut, and accelerate out of the cut.
Originally posted by Bort
How 'bout just a basic increase to the amount of speed lost on cuts, across the board? I've uploaded a version with that so we can check it out.
