Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Asheme
Originally posted by blln4lyf

I would absolutely say they were to effective. Could take out 3 linemen on a run play regularly.
But these updates, if they went live, would make it easier for O-lineman to win run block rolls and not be rev caked, and would halve the effectiveness of Bull Rusher and Heavyweight.

That seems like overkill.


Oh, that is very well possible. I recommend reducing the change of pancakes, then testing. If it is still overkill, get rid of the update for O-line to win run blocks easier, or buff Bull Rusher back to what it was. HW should absolutely get nerfed though, the only reason it wasn't seasons ago is because rev pancakes barely happened, and while they should be reduced now, the nature of the skill should not exist. No increase pancake % comes to mind.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by blln4lyf

Same, not so much for my team, but for the game in general. Pass Quality was one of the main reasons for the "unstoppable" passing attacks and that will go down due to the AE nerf. From watching a tiny bit of the test server games it seems like KL will go way up because of the bobble change as well..should leave the bobble effect as updated but decrease the chance of the throw being bobbled imo.
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The dynamic lead blocking change is good if it works as advertised, the WR blocking change did look a lil wacky in the game I watched, morale hurt may still spiral too much, I'd think about turning it down again if you haven't already done so, and I am happy to see pick radius decreasing as it was never working as intended. A little curious about the passing game since these new SA's, combined with the changes can completely change the effectiveness of the passing game, make sure you guys really examine this. Also zone is still useless imo, mainly because you can manipulate it now to get single coverage deep too easily, even against a C4.

As for the VA's, I don't think I disagree with any of them. I think reducing pancakes or testing the running game without the buff may be a good idea though. While the D could very well rev pancake the other 10 players on the field by the time the back was tackled, you still need to make sure you don't spin the lack of balance in the other direction.

All in all I won't get a good feel of the sim until I actually watch some full games come the start of the preseason though.

im just a little worried what the passing changes are going to do below our league...i mean...it already was hard for guys to catch balls in those lower leagues...not it might be lol...i think our league already is getting hurt from the VA/AEQ changes alone.

Agreed with Zone Defense...will be way too easy to control an offense against it. As much as it pains me to say out loud...

I do think Hail Mary got bumped a little too high...25 yards i thought would have been a decent mark. 30 seems to be a high number. I looked through a scrimmage Lincoln had last season where I had Crouch go on ridiculous deep settings (settings in which one playing any decent team would likely not do in a srs game fwiw) and we threw maybe 10 out of 45 passes for 30 yards...some were borderline...tough to tell.

Yeah, the lower leagues look to be getting killed even moreso than they are in regards to passing.

As for Hail Mary, if you want to be a shorter distance, simply weaken the % gain as the current form provides a huge bonus for a pretty common pass distance. 1% per level to str and throwing is overkill for just 20 yards since the calculation is not from the LOS but from the QB. 1% for 30 yards(more like 25) still has a huge impact but will impact less throws.

I would be okay with it staying at 20 Yards and being a .4 or .5% per level skill.

25 yards is probably a good number for Hail Mary.

FWIW, we've already reverted Bull Rusher back to what it was but are keeping the Heavyweight change. Thus far the run tests we've done have been pretty solid. We had a test sim ran where run support defenses were solely ran - results of test here (this was before we reverted Bull Rusher back to 1% on run plays):

Originally posted by jdros13
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2066
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2067

Ran all inside Slam/Dive/Blast type plays. Team 3 used custom defense (thanks to jb for having packages ready to go and well labled ) and Team 4 used basic defense. The basic defense was run focused, short, but didn't do what I wanted it to do with the blitzes from the safeties most of the time.

Teams were not allowed to kick a FG. Punted on 4th down outside of FG range if it was 2+ yards, went for it otherwise. RPP was not turned off.

Good news - the custom defense seemed to contain well - only gave up 7 points in 2 full games. The basic d was not quite as effective, but there were some bad defensive calls in there so overall it did ok. Lead blocking does seem improved to me.

Other news - Power HB's were typically the ones breaking tackles as we would probably expect. Total pancake count was pretty high for "equal" teams - 214 for Team 3 in the 2 games combined in 138 plays and 118 in 98 plays for Team 4. Team 4 did not get near the pancake count from their Centers that Team 3 did (almost none for Team 4 while the C's were the pancake leaders for Team 3), so defensive dot placement seems to have made a significant difference in that area.

Team 3 had the most success, primarily because it was playing against basic AI. In the 2 games combined there were 138 rushing attempts by Team 3 with only 12 TFLs. 20 BTKLs between the 2 games. 4.45 YPC.

Team 4 was not as successful - in 98 rushing attemps there were 9 TFLs and 11 BTKLs. 3.1 YPC. Ratio was about the same on both teams in both areas (slightly higher BTKLs for Team 3 I'll attribute to cumulative effect morale spiral since the teams are reasonably equivalent).

I'll try to isolate the BTKLs later, to see where they occurred on the field (behind LOS or downfield). Nothing seems overpowered, but I do feel a need to comment that there were no turnover on downs in either game - if a team went for it on 4th they got it in that situation.

As I said I'll try to get some more info, but if anyone else wants to take a look feel free.

Originally posted by Catch22
25 yards is probably a good number for Hail Mary.


i think so...i mean...just the couple games i looked through...there were enough borderline throws that could possibly be right around that mark to make it worthwhile...but obviously a lot of them could have been just shy as well...so it makes sense...now 30 would have just cut that number down to almost nothing against any team with a somewhat decent pass rush.

Originally posted by Bort
As requested, reduced pick radius on man coverage.

WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

and dnt nerf bull rush

A couple of things.

1. Remember Hail Mary is from where the QB is standing, not from the LOS.

2. I'm not sold that those are good results for the defense against the rush. You are using defenses designed to stop the run vs offenses that are using rushing FBs and receiving TEs as blockers at times. If teams have to stuff 8 and 9 in the box all the time to hold rushing to 3 ypc, then you basically force man 2 man with no zone help over the top in most defensive situations.

I know y'all are swamped on the test server and are more or less handcuff because a single sim engine is used throughout GLB, but I am curious how lower level dots are accounted for during this whole process?

It looks like all tests are run with mature, complete builds and there is nothing running for level 14, 22, 30, 38, 46, etc dots to get a sampling of impact across the level caps. Since most teams actually do reside in the minors and that is where all new GLB agents will spend the first 9-12 months of their time, shouldn't we be considering the gaming experience at the lower levels, especially if a goal is to make this game more newbie friendly?

A lot of these changes seem to address specific complaints coming from the World League teams (passing being too easy, running too difficult with good teams, etc), but for those grinding it out in the minors it is literally the exact opposite scenario. Passing is impossible down there and the good teams run 100% of the time. Until you start to get toward those 40+ minor leagues or AA passing is not even a good viable option.

I am just worried that these proposed changes (I know not finalized yet) will really drive the minors to a frankly "boring" direction in that passes aren't attempted for the first 8 months of your dot's life

Originally posted by IIAMLEGEND

Originally posted by Bort
As requested, reduced pick radius on man coverage.

WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

and dnt nerf bull rush

This is talking about the ability of offensive player to pick a defender covering another man. For instance, HB is running a route to the flats. And SS is covering him. LOLB is covering TE and is lined up outside the SS. It will now be harder for the TE to pick the SS.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard


1. Remember Hail Mary is from where the QB is standing, not from the LOS.



Yes...and QB's don't make a lot of 25 yard throws in this game. Like I said I went through a game in which we threw nothing but deep passes 45 times and it came out as maybe 10 passes that we 30 yards and a couple of those were borderline. Thats pretty low considering we threw deep 45 times and were set up only to do so.

Yep. Part of the problem IMO is that long passes are considered to be 10 yards from the LOS. When I first heard that in season 2 or so, it was amusing to me. Even if you favor long passes you won't be able to target the hail mary range, because QBs will have their risk assessment improve early (in that 10-30 yard range). There isn't even a play you can call to make your QB try and wait and throw deep if you need 50 yards on the last play of a half. QBs just get rid of the ball too darn fast.

Originally posted by Bort

Catching balls without decent catching skill is going to be a bit harder now, as well. You have to pass some catching checks to get bonuses from pass quality and a few other things now. Also increased the chance of larger effect on ball when bobbling. The number of balls that are bobbled into the air and then caught is actually pretty high, so making the bobble have a larger chance to move away from the player makes catching harder.


If you could change pass deflections so that they had a higher degree of deflection, it would greatly improve pass defense.
As it is now, a deflection will barely move a ball, and is still caught the majority of the time.

A deflected ball should have atleast SOME chance to be deflected in not only 360 degrees, but also higher or lower...
Deflections should be able to be tipped up, jump ball like; swatted directly into the ground; bounce off a helmet and shoot 5 yards away into another players hands; and be tipped enough where it's at least out of the WR's catching range.

That's my thoughts on it. Bobbling isn't enough. Fix deflections, fix a large part of pass defending.

is the change to SYM going to be anything listed as an "outside rush"? or is it going to be no longer for like pitch plays?

personally, it would seem better to reduce it to 3% or even 2% instead of disallowing outside rushing. it severely limits the amount of plays its available on.

Added to OP latest updates that we are testing:

Latest updates as of 3/27 11 am PST:

Originally posted by Bort
Updated relentless pursuit SA to 2 seconds instead of 3

Also, changed SYM again:

4% to breaking tackles on inside runs, 4% to fakes and spin on outside runs.

Originally posted by Bort
bull rush back to what it was as well.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
Ok people who have actually played football at a significant level can correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it take better tackling technique to take down a ballcarrier from the side or the back than the front? It seems to be like that's where tackling should have a greater effect.

Originally posted by Bort
Yeah, that's the case already; front requires more strength than rear, and it averages between the two for whatever angle you're at. Strength was 3 times more important for front tackles, though. And front tackles are very common.

Originally posted by Bort
Blocking rolls similarly easy, but reduced pancake rolls.

Originally posted by Bort
Ok, figured out the man problem. Yep, was related to an update I did just recently.

Also bumped up zone reaction a little again as catch requested.

Originally posted by Bort
Updated new WR screen play. WR route should get him moving outside instead of bubbling inside. Also changed the route of the blockers.

Originally posted by Bort
Hm, the LB is not blitzing, so he doesn't get picked up on the pre-snap blocks.

Should run blocks always try to block players who are close to the line, perhaps? Vision checks be damned...

Originally posted by Bort
Uploaded this. Seems to work pretty well, actually. I wonder if there are instances where it would be bad form? I guess you should generally try and block a guy if he's up on the line no matter what he's doing.

Give it a try and let me know if you think it works better. I'd try a few diff plays.

Originally posted by Bort
Ok, morale effect knocked back down a tad

are any of these going to be in the change log?

Originally posted by AngryDragon
are any of these going to be in the change log?

If they get moved to the live server, of course they will.