Warrior General Games

Ya that makes sense, like I said that is my main concern, that the sim isn't overloaded with teams running PA

Originally posted by Staz
Each play fake would decrease the effect. If you've ran two play action passes in a row, the defense isn't going to get fooled by the third one. Consider the play action "fake" to be like a meter. The more successful runs you have, the more this meter gets filled. The more it's filled, the more successful the PA will be. Each time you call a PA, though, the meter drops considerably. Consecutive PAs drop it even more.

that's the way it should work, but every play action should carry a much larger risk of being sacked - it's not just the actions of the QB and HB that defenses watch - it's the offensive line as well and a true play action gives up a bit in pass protection. The QB doing it will also going to have to be better than average - a pocket QB with low speed / agility should be a liability, at least in dotball. But I'm not sure the game really needs it, if you wanted something more it's probably better to look at a WR reverse instead.

Originally posted by Husker2
Ya that makes sense, like I said that is my main concern, that the sim isn't overloaded with teams running PA

Which is exactly where some sort of a defense memory part of the game would have to be added to the sim. Like normal football, certain plays are predictable. If an offense has done a PA 25/35 plays, the defense should be able to adjust, and almost see it coming.

Originally posted by Bloodfart
that's the way it should work, but every play action should carry a much larger risk of being sacked - it's not just the actions of the QB and HB that defenses watch - it's the offensive line as well and a true play action gives up a bit in pass protection. The QB doing it will also going to have to be better than average - a pocket QB with low speed / agility should be a liability, at least in dotball. But I'm not sure the game really needs it, if you wanted something more it's probably better to look at a WR reverse instead.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. Play Action should be added to my project, but I think we need to get some feedback on a few things before I continue with it.

Originally posted by Staz
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Play Action should be added to my project, but I think we need to get some feedback on a few things before I continue with it.

if your hearts set on making it work, it's probably best to make so it only really works with dual threat QB's who have the speed and agility to get 'set' or roll out after the fake handoff, might kill two birds with one stone that way by making dual threat QB's more attractive and get a bit of diversity in the game. Either that or the QB's going to need exceptional vision and be set to get rid of the ball quick unless he wants to get hammered or picked off since he'll be hanging onto the ball a lot longer than is usual. It's sure as hell going to have a lot of people saying it's overpowered unless you make it so you need a certain skill set and individual tactics to really make it work, and even then it'll have to be the high risk / high reward play it is.

Originally posted by Bloodfart
if your hearts set on making it work, it's probably best to make so it only really works with dual threat QB's who have the speed and agility to get 'set' or roll out after the fake handoff, might kill two birds with one stone that way by making dual threat QB's more attractive and get a bit of diversity in the game. Either that or the QB's going to need exceptional vision and be set to get rid of the ball quick unless he wants to get hammered or picked off since he'll be hanging onto the ball a lot longer than is usual. It's sure as hell going to have a lot of people saying it's overpowered unless you make it so you need a certain skill set and individual tactics to really make it work, and even then it'll have to be the high risk / high reward play it is.

Vision SHOULD already determine how well he picks up the pressure.

I think you're jumping the gun quite a bit with these "people are going to say it's overpowered" when we haven't even decided
A. How we want it to work
B. Whether a VA would be added to have the ability to improve the "sell" on the PA
C. Whether defenders would have the ability to adjust to overall plays and have some sort of "memory"
D. Whether we'll be able to add defensive reads (needed to make play action "truly" effective), like reading the OL, HB, etc.
E. Whether Bort is even willing to consider this yet.

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that it should only work with dual threat QBs. The "action" in the play action is basically selling the handoff through the fake of the handoff and concealing the ball afterward. Neither one of those require a lot of speed or agility, and even pure pocket passers have been good at play actions. If we want to make dual threat QBs viable, that's a completely separate issue that involves improving scrambling and the tuck and run logic.

I'm not saying it'll be overpowered, I'm saying people will say that even before they've seen a single instance of it so making it clear your QB will need a certain skill set and tactics to be good at it might help sell the idea to users, I expect you'll need them to want it to even get Bort to look into it.
nor am I saying it should work ONLY on dual threats, just that it's an idea that might help sell these plays to Bort, I'm just not going to use 'real world' examples since dotball is a different universe and unless I'm wrong he's been trying to make things a bit more diverse build wise so that's one way of getting it. People are of course going to point out guys with square wheels like Peyton Manning can do it all the time but they might have to accept dotball aint the NFL or NCAA.
in my first post I said it should be a fairly risky play since it should give up something in the way of pass protection - if the D blitzes 5 or 6 at you should probably get sacked - a lot of play actions in real games have the FB or TE staying fairly close by to act as a safety valve the QB can dump it to if the shit hits the fan.
but yeah, the D should have some sort of memory, we already have a repeat play penalty though that doesn't seem to be working sometimes, turning it up a couple notches on play actions might be the simplest way. Your challenge is to make it workable with the fewest moving parts if you get my drift.

Originally posted by Husker2
Ya that makes sense, like I said that is my main concern, that the sim isn't overloaded with teams running PA

lol. Lets get 1 play action before we worry about that

i think if play action is added in, the Pump Fake and Look Off SAs really need to be toned down to compensate.

if play action is added get rid of play focus. it didnt work for madden i dont think it will work for GLB.

Originally posted by Clarka3
i think if play action is added in Look Off SAs really need to be toned down to compensate.

hmm, Can you find me any instances of look out firing more than 1 time per game?

My shitty OLinemen fire "Look Out!" 5+ times per game tbh

Originally posted by Sal Basss
My shitty OLinemen fire "Look Out!" 5+ times per game tbh






No, but seriously... Look Off is just lol

Originally posted by Dpride59
hmm, Can you find me any instances of look out firing more than 1 time per game?

that was more for pump fake than Look Out- and i was remarking on how often they fire per game, not per play. if play action is implemented, the defense will have virtually no chance between play action plays and the look off/ pump fake SAs.