User Pass
Home Sign Up Contact Log In
Page:
 
MGeezy2186
offline
Link
 
as long as a team doesnt slam the ball for 3 qtrs, only to go PA for the entire 4th qtr with the CBs and S biting on every PA fake, I like the idea. I also think it would be cool for QBs to have a SA or VA dedicated to PA so their fakes are better (see Peyton Manning as opposed to JaMarcus Russell).
 
amace
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by MGeezy2186
as long as a team doesnt slam the ball for 3 qtrs, only to go PA for the entire 4th qtr with the CBs and S biting on every PA fake, I like the idea. I also think it would be cool for QBs to have a SA or VA dedicated to PA so their fakes are better (see Peyton Manning as opposed to JaMarcus Russell).


See my grandma as opposed to JaMarcus Russell
 
Staz
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by MGeezy2186
as long as a team doesnt slam the ball for 3 qtrs, only to go PA for the entire 4th qtr with the CBs and S biting on every PA fake, I like the idea. I also think it would be cool for QBs to have a SA or VA dedicated to PA so their fakes are better (see Peyton Manning as opposed to JaMarcus Russell).


Each play fake would decrease the effect. If you've ran two play action passes in a row, the defense isn't going to get fooled by the third one. Consider the play action "fake" to be like a meter. The more successful runs you have, the more this meter gets filled. The more it's filled, the more successful the PA will be. Each time you call a PA, though, the meter drops considerably. Consecutive PAs drop it even more.
 
Dpride59
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Staz
Each play fake would decrease the effect. If you've ran two play action passes in a row, the defense isn't going to get fooled by the third one. Consider the play action "fake" to be like a meter. The more successful runs you have, the more this meter gets filled. The more it's filled, the more successful the PA will be. Each time you call a PA, though, the meter drops considerably. Consecutive PAs drop it even more.


is this you talking or bort?
 
Warlock
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Staz
Each play fake would decrease the effect. If you've ran two play action passes in a row, the defense isn't going to get fooled by the third one. Consider the play action "fake" to be like a meter. The more successful runs you have, the more this meter gets filled. The more it's filled, the more successful the PA will be. Each time you call a PA, though, the meter drops considerably. Consecutive PAs drop it even more.


P much. In real football, there's an ebb and flow, based on down/distance/quarter/tendencies/effectiveness/etc... PA could be very successful if used back to back, but there's a ton of factors behind it. I doubt that Bort would be able to replicate the realism needed, so if it does get added, I expect it to be just as Staz describes.
 
Chris LeDoux
offline
Link
 
Same way NCAA10 does it too. Just create a new algorithm to mimic their model.
 
Hostile
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Staz
Each play fake would decrease the effect. If you've ran two play action passes in a row, the defense isn't going to get fooled by the third one. Consider the play action "fake" to be like a meter. The more successful runs you have, the more this meter gets filled. The more it's filled, the more successful the PA will be. Each time you call a PA, though, the meter drops considerably. Consecutive PAs drop it even more.


+1. PA's are useful in late and goal situations and can maybe fudge you a few more yards down the field on bigger plays, but it really isn't a make or break part of the game. As far as I know, defenses in this game haven't yet developed to where they automatically defend to a specific play based on past games, plays, oranything like that - but that would have to be implemented along with this idea.
 
Staz
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Dpride59
is this you talking or bort?


Me. It's how I would do it. Bort hasn't made any comment on Play Action that I know of.


Originally posted by Hostile
+1. PA's are useful in late and goal situations and can maybe fudge you a few more yards down the field on bigger plays, but it really isn't a make or break part of the game. As far as I know, defenses in this game haven't yet developed to where they automatically defend to a specific play based on past games, plays, oranything like that - but that would have to be implemented along with this idea.


I would absolutely "love" some sort of memory added into the game.
 
Husker2
offline
Link
 
I think defenses would have to get much more complicated to allow PA's to be put in.
 
Staz
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Husker2
I think defenses would have to get much more complicated to allow PA's to be put in.


Would you mind explaining what makes you think that? I'm just curious.
 
Husker2
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Staz
Would you mind explaining what makes you think that? I'm just curious.


Complicated might not be the best word. But there would have to be something in the DAI to counter PA. Or I guess you could try to have the vision skill decide if it is a PA, run, or pass.

In my mind, i guess I see some kind of slider in either the Tactics or DAI that is some kind of PA reader for the defense. I am just worried, with how strong Pump Fake is, that people would be able to use PA every play with a Pump Fake stacked QB and the secondary would have no chance.

If you are able to make it so the PA read is based on the players vision it could be a very good addition. You would just have to make sure, like other skills, that it isnt an over powering addition for offenses. Like I said, in my mind, I see Defenses countering PA with some addition to the DAI or player tactics.
 
eaglesfan20
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Husker2
Complicated might not be the best word. But there would have to be something in the DAI to counter PA. Or I guess you could try to have the vision skill decide if it is a PA, run, or pass.

In my mind, i guess I see some kind of slider in either the Tactics or DAI that is some kind of PA reader for the defense. I am just worried, with how strong Pump Fake is, that people would be able to use PA every play with a Pump Fake stacked QB and the secondary would have no chance.

If you are able to make it so the PA read is based on the players vision it could be a very good addition. You would just have to make sure, like other skills, that it isnt an over powering addition for offenses. Like I said, in my mind, I see Defenses countering PA with some addition to the DAI or player tactics.


the way it is now defensive players read, react and change direction too quickly as it is. they almost seem to know if its run or pass before the snap with minimal reading of the play. it doesnt seem that tactics regarding playing pass or run have that big of an effect possessively or negatively against a defender. i think defensive players set to pass need to have a bigger possibility of being out of position against a run as they are primarily looking pass and being out of position when playing run against the pass.

play action is designed to fool a defense which is why players need to have more penalty for playing run in passing situations and run in passing situations - but this is hard now as players only have the option to pass, run or balanced and that is a game long decision you have to make for your player.

this is where more diversified and situation layer tactics would be a great addition as well as bigger affects for looking for run over pass - that would leave this players out of position possibly - it would need to be balanced though and as you said have to obviously have vision checks in place - and possibly a bigger repeat play penalty than that of normal plays or i could see it being abused.



Originally posted by Staz
I would absolutely "love" some sort of memory added into the game.


if this could happen, along with more individual and/or situational statistics could make things much more interesting and then you would really be able to set up a defense - especially if for every run play(or a good portion of them) that is currently in the game had some sort of play action based off of it
 
Staz
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Husker2
Complicated might not be the best word. But there would have to be something in the DAI to counter PA. Or I guess you could try to have the vision skill decide if it is a PA, run, or pass.

In my mind, i guess I see some kind of slider in either the Tactics or DAI that is some kind of PA reader for the defense. I am just worried, with how strong Pump Fake is, that people would be able to use PA every play with a Pump Fake stacked QB and the secondary would have no chance.

If you are able to make it so the PA read is based on the players vision it could be a very good addition. You would just have to make sure, like other skills, that it isnt an over powering addition for offenses. Like I said, in my mind, I see Defenses countering PA with some addition to the DAI or player tactics.


Can't really have a counter to PA. You could have an individual tactic for players on how quickly they "adjust" to plays. That way, if a team runs a specific play over and over, the player could start to adjust to that. If you didn't want him getting sucked in on a Play Action, you could set him to adjust slowly.
 
Husker2
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Staz
Can't really have a counter to PA. You could have an individual tactic for players on how quickly they "adjust" to plays. That way, if a team runs a specific play over and over, the player could start to adjust to that. If you didn't want him getting sucked in on a Play Action, you could set him to adjust slowly.


Yea, i was kind of making it more complicated with thinking something needed to be added to the DAI. If you make it based on vision or some kind of play tactic it would be easier to manage.

I just dont want it to come in and be over powered. If you look at the NFL or College ( i know glb isnt either just using as a reference) teams run a lot of PA and it goes for a big play, I would say less then 15% of the time. I just dont want the sim to turn into a PA fest, which is why i thought a counter in the DAI would be needed.
 
Staz
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Husker2
Yea, i was kind of making it more complicated with thinking something needed to be added to the DAI. If you make it based on vision or some kind of play tactic it would be easier to manage.

I just dont want it to come in and be over powered. If you look at the NFL or College ( i know glb isnt either just using as a reference) teams run a lot of PA and it goes for a big play, I would say less then 15% of the time. I just dont want the sim to turn into a PA fest, which is why i thought a counter in the DAI would be needed.


If they did it right, it wouldn't be able to turn into a PA fest. The meter I mentioned above would probably take 5-6 runs, and then once you ran a play action, it would be down to something like 20% full. Running a play action would need to take that meter down significantly, if not completely.
 
Page:
 


You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.