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Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Discussions > Current Sim Issue - (Make) Secondary Attributes Having More Meaning
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Bukowski
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Edited by Bukowski on Apr 2, 2010 16:17:39
 
Catch22
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fwiw, we didn't even come remotely close to double the effect. That was what we started with and then we tested it, adjusted it, tested it some more, adjusted it, tested it some more, so on and so on until we got to the levels we moved to the live server. We even made another adjustment after the first day of pre-season games to reduce the effect in half to what it currently was.
 
TyrannyVaunt
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Seriously this is fucking ridiculous. I'm sorry but are these type of changes just to give you guys something to test? Something to keep your job? WTF. This didn't need to be changed.
 
Sal Basss
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Originally posted by Catch22
fwiw, we didn't even come remotely close to double the effect. That was what we started with and then we tested it, adjusted it, tested it some more, adjusted it, tested it some more, so on and so on until we got to the levels we moved to the live server. We even made another adjustment after the first day of pre-season games to reduce the effect in half to what it currently was.


I'm not saying the change was bad or should be changed from what it is presently, but can you please elaborate on what brought about the change? I am just confused at what the problem was that needed to be fixed from last season.
 
TyrannyVaunt
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Originally posted by Sal Basss
Originally posted by Catch22

fwiw, we didn't even come remotely close to double the effect. That was what we started with and then we tested it, adjusted it, tested it some more, adjusted it, tested it some more, so on and so on until we got to the levels we moved to the live server. We even made another adjustment after the first day of pre-season games to reduce the effect in half to what it currently was.


I'm not saying the change was bad or should be changed from what it is presently, but can you please elaborate on what brought about the change? I am just confused at what the problem was that needed to be fixed from last season.


People look at the gen1, gen2, gen3 dots that are retiring or moving into decline - those that were very successful... And when they see those dots, they begin picking them to pieces and saying - that dot shouldn't be able to do this or that not having this or that.

It is fucked up. But that is what is going on here. People are nit picking at builds and trying to be God and force us to build differently. I really don't understand this game. And will not be playing it much longer.
 
GoHooterGo
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Originally posted by Catch22
fwiw, we didn't even come remotely close to double the effect. That was what we started with and then we tested it, adjusted it, tested it some more, adjusted it, tested it some more, so on and so on until we got to the levels we moved to the live server. We even made another adjustment after the first day of pre-season games to reduce the effect in half to what it currently was.


Catch,

Can you PLEASE tell me what was needed to warrant such a change in Confidence and Stamina other then an opinion? Was there an exploit? A Bug? Over powering? What was it that shocked you guys to the point that "This needs to be changed"?

I will look forward to your answer, but from what has been posted on here, it seems like a Tester decided that Stamina and Confidence needed a more important roll in GLB, and ta da, the SIM was changed to accommodate the tester's wishes despite NO COMPLAINTS from the GLB Community.
 
TyrannyVaunt
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Originally posted by GoHooterGo
Originally posted by Catch22

fwiw, we didn't even come remotely close to double the effect. That was what we started with and then we tested it, adjusted it, tested it some more, adjusted it, tested it some more, so on and so on until we got to the levels we moved to the live server. We even made another adjustment after the first day of pre-season games to reduce the effect in half to what it currently was.


Catch,

Can you PLEASE tell me what was needed to warrant such a change in Confidence and Stamina other then an opinion? Was there an exploit? A Bug? Over powering? What was it that shocked you guys to the point that "This needs to be changed"?

I will look forward to your answer, but from what has been posted on here, it seems like a Tester decided that Stamina and Confidence needed a more important roll in GLB, and ta da, the SIM was changed to accommodate the tester's wishes despite NO COMPLAINTS from the GLB Community.


Pretty much this. This game has become a fucking joke dude.
 
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edit:
i'm not happy
Edited by stromstarhammer on Apr 3, 2010 10:46:05
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by GoHooterGo
Catch, Can you PLEASE tell me what was needed to warrant such a change in Confidence and Stamina other then an opinion? Was there an exploit? A Bug? Over powering? What was it that shocked you guys to the point that "This needs to be changed"?

One of the events that sparked a lot of outage was a particular blocking TE (in Pro or WL, I forget) who was able to accumulate hundreds of pancakes during the season while playing with only around 20 stamina. Basically, some positions could get by without investing in stamina at all, and that needed to be addressed.
 
Sal Basss
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To circle the wagons and explain my viewpoint once again:

I actually have decided I like this sim, and I like the change. Previously, my build plans involved never putting a single SP into stamina, and for some positions, never putting any SP into confidence either. It was my opinion that that's not right, but it worked with the sim.

It's true, I did not respond to this thread when I saw it weeks ago. I honestly did not believe anything would come of this solely because it was a lot of: "I believe," and "x attribute should," etc. Where is the data for this? The most convincing argument in this whole thread for why stamina having a bigger effect on things was this, which was posted less than an hour ago by a non-tester:

Originally posted by jdbolick
One of the events that sparked a lot of outage was a particular blocking TE (in Pro or WL, I forget) who was able to accumulate hundreds of pancakes during the season while playing with only around 20 stamina. Basically, some positions could get by without investing in stamina at all, and that needed to be addressed.


If this was true and a known factor, shouldn't there have been some tests run and documented on the first page of this discussion thread to support that it's possible for a player to get by with 20 stamina? All I saw is a tester's opinion on one of the very first lines of this thread, so I assumed that was a hypothetical made-up situation and had no actual existence in the game.

That leads to the question posed by Hooter, which I believe is a legimate logistics issue. Where is the data? Again, I believe the change is fine, but why weren't the tests that were run to show this problem shown in this thread, if this was the discussion thread for the public to use? It's all opinions as far as I can see. If tests weren't done, why not? Why were opinions listened to?

To anyone who is pissed off at this change: please don't derail this thread like the one in GLB Main. Some of us are trying to be civil and have an adult discussion, and any "THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT" posts are just going to destroy the conversation.
 
GoHooterGo
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Sadly, we still have not gotten any actual proof, that any changes were needed.

Still a lot of "I think" or "I believe" or "I'd like".

Since when do the Testers speak for all of GLB or what the majority of it's CUSTOMER'S prefer?
 
GoHooterGo
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Also, since you've locked the thread before I was able to put any of my own thoughts in other then the OP (I posted it late at night, then went to bed).

So here I go, since I know you'll see it Catch.

Originally posted by Catch22

There is a Test Server Discussion Forum where people have EVERY opportunity to offer their input (we often take things posted there and copy them there). This is no agenda being driven by a tester. It's a change that GLB thinks is best for the game after a ton of discussion and testing.

Hooter: Yes, a Test Server Discussion Forum that is SNIPPETS of what is actually being discussed. Also, we have no idea who is posting what other then the Title "Tester". So, how can we not determine if a Tester is pushing an agenda or not if for all we know, it's the same "Tester"? This is why having the ability to view Test Server Discussions AS IT HAPPENS and who is posting is best for the game. Blocking Posting Abilities would be best so that way Threads would not become polluted by the GLB Community, but we can read the Forum, and Reply in the Main Forums accordingly, so now the discussion group opens up from a select few testers to the entire community without ever obstructing the Testers Discussion.

It first came about as a result of this discussion:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3784471

3 pages of posts from the entire GLB population but yet on the test server we had 19 pages discussing the issue. Where were the people who don't like this change then? If you don't like something, you better mention it when we're discussing it, not after we've spent countless hours looking at and making a decision that we feel is for the best interests of the game.

As a result of that thread, it received more discussion when I asked people to give me what they thought were current sim issues. This thread was summarized here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3820417

Hooter: Once again, you have to spend HOURS on GLB every day just to read all of the posts and be on top of it. There is so much "I think" or "I'd like" that we have no idea what is being taken seriously. So why bother?

In that post, there is a summary of what we were looking at as major issues that need attention. Based on the discussion above, we came up with a list. At the top of the list was...

Originally posted by Catch22



Major Issues That Need Immediate Attention

Secondary Attributes need to have more meaning



4 pages of discussion in that thread. Again, where was all the complaining when it's being put right there for every one to see? You want input, you had your opportunity to provide plenty of it, but no one did.

Hooter: If ANYONE knew this was going to happen, this revolt would have happened then. But the majority of the Community does not read the these forums and are blinded until then.

Then yet ANOTHER thread about it since it had been narrowed down to a major issue that needed immediate attention:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3830939

1 page and a couple of posts in the two plus weeks it was up before pre-season began.



Moral of this story? We discussed the hell out of a change like this. Everyone had ample opportunity to offer their thoughts and input but chose not to until after it was changed. GLB never lets one person influence the direction of the game. There are ideas/suggestions put out by testers all the time that are never given the time of day. We did everything we could to let people know this was an issue being discussed. At the end of the day, what changes in the game is ultimately GLB's call, not the very loud vocal forum posters who always try and shift the direction of the game. There are a lot more people that play GLB then the 10-20 people who are posting in these threads discussing these changes. I've said this before but it bears mentioning again - one of the biggest problems GLB has had in the past has been catering to these vocal forum posters. GLB needs to base their decisions on what is best for the long term future of the game. After over a month of lengthy discussion, we decided that this change met that criteria.

Locking this thread - if you want to discuss it, there is a thread in test server discussions about making secondary attributes have more meaning. Go there and discuss it http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3830939

But let me be clear on the bottom line - we're going with this change and it's staying in the game. You can voice your disagreement and opinion, but the chance to provide input on this change is now past.


Hooter: Since we've all had ample time to discuss this, where was the Announcement of possible changes? Let me ask this, and I'd love to hear the answer to this.

Why can't all changes be VOTED ON by the Community like others have been done before? If GLB TRULY wanted to change the game for the improvement and benefit of the community, why not let the Customers choose and please the majority of the Community instead of making them read countless hours of Posts just to find something that may or may not happen?


That is all I have to say, but I'll be checking back here more often awaiting any replies.
 
Catch22
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I hate to tell you Hooter - that thread wasn't a revolt. It was 5 people arguing back and forth with one another.

Point #1 - tester names are no longer anonymous - Q & A guys started out doing it that way but I asked them to change that about two weeks ago.

Point #2 - I read EVERY comment posted in the test server discussion threads. If there is a legitimate issue or concern it's noted and taken into consideration.

That being said, I do understand that not everyone reads the forums, so I'm going to start making a weekly announcement listing all the changes we are discussing/testing and linking the appropriate threads so people know where to go if they want to offer input.

As for your last point. This is a business, not a democracy. As I stated in the other thread, one of the problems in the past this game had was trying to cater to everybody and adapting the game on whims instead of going forward with the vision the game developer had in mind for his game. While we value input and suggestions, when all is said and done, GLB is going to make changes they feel are best for the game. This change is one that we (and let me make it clear that ultimately a decision like this is Bort's, if he doesn't like something he's not going to add it) feel is best for the game.
 
HULK
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Originally posted by Sal Basss
Hooter

Excellent post.


This
 
HULK
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Originally posted by jdbolick

One of the events that sparked a lot of outage was a particular blocking TE (in Pro or WL, I forget) who was able to accumulate hundreds of pancakes during the season while playing with only around 20 stamina. Basically, some positions could get by without investing in stamina at all, and that needed to be addressed.


Why not fix it by having every player on the field for a play lose the same ammount of stamina on that play?

Simple and effective.
 
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