Warrior General Games

Any player will be able to choose an archetype. They just aren't forced to do so unless they are <80 days old. You don't lose any of your existing attributes/SA's/VA's in doing so, but you will start incurring the penalty and bonus SA's if you do choose one (as well as getting the archetype bonus SA and the ALG's for that archetype)

I had an idea for a DvG change....to make it a bit more of a penalty.

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David vs Goliath
The bigger they are...Each level of David vs Goliath gives a +3% bonus to the success rate of tackling a player who is heavier or stronger. If the tackle could not have been made without the bonus from David vs Goliath, the ball carrier receives a +3% bonus per rank to fighting out extra yards.
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The theory is that you want to make the tackle without it using DvG, but if you do have to use it they will get more yards since they are stronger or heavier. However, a smaller/weaker player that makes a great tackle (doesn't need the DvG bonus) can stop them from getting the extra yards.

Originally posted by PackMan97
I had an idea for a DvG change....to make it a bit more of a penalty.

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David vs Goliath
The bigger they are...Each level of David vs Goliath gives a +3% bonus to the success rate of tackling a player who is heavier or stronger. If the tackle could not have been made without the bonus from David vs Goliath, the ball carrier receives a +3% bonus per rank to fighting out extra yards.
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The theory is that you want to make the tackle without it using DvG, but if you do have to use it they will get more yards since they are stronger or heavier. However, a smaller/weaker player that makes a great tackle (doesn't need the DvG bonus) can stop them from getting the extra yards.

That's a pretty good compromise there and still gives enough of a bonus that DBs/LBs would want to take it. Might have to take it all the way down to a 2% make tackle bonus, but 3% seems fair as well. Just needs some testing.

Originally posted by Catch22
Any player will be able to choose an archetype. They just aren't forced to do so unless they are <80 days old. You don't lose any of your existing attributes/SA's/VA's in doing so, but you will start incurring the penalty and bonus SA's if you do choose one (as well as getting the archetype bonus SA and the ALG's for that archetype)

OK, I guess I forgot about that part.

I still don't see though for older players how it's balanced to take away certain VAs when they've spent 10 seasons basing a build around them. If I'm at plateau, I only have 15 SP next season, so if I choose to go archetype, then most I can get to in the SA is 7 (if I had 1 extra SP to get to 16) and that means I have to throw out my previous build plan to replace a VA that was converted to an SA. That doesn't seem like a great trade.

How about if an older player does NOT choose an archetype, they can continue to have access to the VAs that will change to SAs? That way older players who it wouldn't make sense to go for an archetype aren't penalized.

I think P and K should not be eligible for Motivational speaker. Like the big quote said, it should only apply to the side of the ball that the player plays on. That way it is an actual trade off not just a place to puts VPs when the kicker runs out of good options.

Besides, no one listens to the kicker.

Or get rid of it all together, morale loss is laughable enough without it.

Is Zone Spec definitely going to be an archetype specific SA? If not, we are going to see some seriously overpowered Hard-Hitter, zone CBs.

I've always been on the side that loved VAs, but with all the new SAs coming out....many borrowed from VAs, it seems the VA system will be only half intact, and everyone will be taking the same VAs all the time...
This may be the one time to do away with the VA system, or totally change it around and revamp it...


If there isn't atleast 6 viable VAs for all archetypes of each position, its sort of pointless.


Since no one spends SPs on SAs early in career and they don't have auto gains, change the veteran point system so that VXP should just gain VPs like now, but VPs are treated like skill points except they can only be used to raise SAs.
Merge the VA system with the new SAs you are creating, and all the new archetypes could have a complete third SA tree...(obviously some of the new SAs could be shared, and not all unique, and just turn all the decent VAs into SAs).

You'd probably have to reduce the VXP gained per day though.

I'm not really sure whether this should go here or in the suggestions forum, but I think this needs to be discussed. After talking with one of the coordinators on the Chocolate Blaze and some of the top GLB minds in the game about running pure passing offenses, I (and others) have come to the conclusion that WR VAs are incredibly overpowered and will be even more so with the new archetypes. I'm going to quote a post I made in another forum and hopefully it can get some discussion started on how deceptively overpowered these VAs really are.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Rather than go for a deep passer and speedsters, I thought about the possibility of going all possession WRs.

Basically run a derivative of this build at all WR positions:

Testing This WR (Lv. 72 WR)--Possession
Ht/Wt: 6'6", 215lbs

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 52
Speed: 95.02 (+22)
Agility: 90.17 (+15)
Jumping: 78.13
Stamina: 50.02
Vision: 58.18
Confidence: 48.02

Football Skills
Blocking: 29
Catching: 93.13 (+5)
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 65.19
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Possession Receiver Abilities
Route Running: 12
Sticky Hands: 11
Jumping Catch: 10
Diving Catch: 1
One Handed Catch: 1

Speedster Abilities
First Step: 0
Quick Cut: 0
Head Fake: 0
Spin: 0
Juke: 0

Veteran Abilities:
Possession Receiver: 15
Slot Machine: 15
Mr. Reliable: 15
Clock Manager: 11

Catch Ball Chance +21%

The main change that would take place would be that the WRs not set to WR3 would drop Slot Machine for Comeback Kid. WR1-2,4-5 would have +81% to catch ball chance on 3rd and 4th down and less than 8 yards and plus 111% to catch ball chance on 3rd and 4th and more than 15 yards when trailing. WR3 would have +81% to catch ball chance on 3rd and 4th and less than 8 yards plus the double stacked bonuses to RR and SH. For the last four minutes of the second and fourth quarter, if trailing, you can add an additional 50% to catch ball chance for both of those. An additional 167% to catch ball chance? Yes please.

Add in a QB with 120 throwing, 100 strength, 100 vision, Clock Manager, Hail Mary, Laser Arm, and some PQ AEQ.

Is the possibility of having 167% catch ball chance (actually 187 if you were to max Clock Manager) really a good idea? For WRs built to outroll CBs rather than create separation, this is an absolutely huge bonus. Even on normal 3rd downs, these WRs are getting +81% to catch ball chance plus the bonus from Sticky Hands. I know the counter-argument is that CBs have Third Down Stopper; however, that VA only gives +45% to the PD score and CBs already have the disadvantage of having to defend the pass--they are fighting the QB and the WR.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Is the possibility of having 167% catch ball chance (actually 187 if you were to max Clock Manager) really a good idea? For WRs built to outroll CBs rather than create separation, this is an absolutely huge bonus. Even on normal 3rd downs, these WRs are getting +81% to catch ball chance plus the bonus from Sticky Hands. I know the counter-argument is that CBs have Third Down Stopper; however, that VA only gives +45% to the PD score and CBs already have the disadvantage of having to defend the pass--they are fighting the QB and the WR.

The problem here is that you are building a WR that isnt built to create separation and outroll a CB. Which is actually fairly easy to do.

Yeah but you could defeat that build with a CB who is built to effect the Morale and Vision of the WR. Both are rather low and could be targeted to take this WR out of the game.

Originally posted by bhall43
The problem here is that you are building a WR that isnt built to create separation and outroll a CB. Which is actually fairly easy to do.

Let's assume that you are correct that WRs built for separation can out-roll a CB. Most of those WRs have 70 or so catching, maybe capped strength, and nothing in the possession tree except for some possible points in RR. If they can already out-roll a CB, what is a WR who is made as a pure-possession WR going to do? Those % increases get more valuable the higher the base score the WR has.

Originally posted by Pietasters
Yeah but you could defeat that build with a CB who is built to effect the Morale and Vision of the WR. Both are rather low and could be targeted to take this WR out of the game.

But how many CBs use SO or AoI?

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
But how many CBs use SO or AoI?



Well in the current sim not many people build a CB like that. But that doesn't mean it's not viable. It seems to me that generating hurries is the key to a good pass defense. A hurry causes the QB to throw a bad throw, which in turn causes the WR/CB to make a vision check. In the current sim in most cases that is a WIN/WIN situation for the CB. You see a much higher PD/Interception result when you cause Bad throws. Smooth Operator will only improve your chances with this kind of defense.

In most cases we are seeing a complete pass coverage defense without thought of putting any pressure on the QB because most of the time the QB will not leave the pocket. Giving him all day to make the throw without any penalty. Case in point would be putting the DE's out into zone on Singleback, Shotgun 3wr and 5WR (if your nice and not running the MLB blitz.) But by going complete pass coverage your allowing the QB to take his time to make the throw. Which improves the chances of the WR making the catch when covered by two or three guys. You put pressure on the QB and he won't make those throws.

It's funny because people complain about things like this WR's build, or to many catches with double or triple coverage but some of it is the direct result of the choices and action you take. It's paper, rock, and scissors.

People haven't even talked about the Complete Aura of Intimidation Defense if we see Morale become more important. Or a complete Shut Down Coverage secondary.

If you really have a good group of agents you could do a Shut Down Coverage and Zone Specialist on your secondary with good shopping. So they are good Man to Man and in Zone. They would always have a bonus to speed and agility so would be able to focus on Strength and Tackling more.

People just tend to write certain things off because someone else said it was bad or that it doesn't work. Like Snarl, You snarl before you tackle reducing Morale and making it easier to tackle. Add Aura of Intimidation Reduces Morale of the players around him. Which again makes him easier to tackle. Which means these things lower the offensive players opposed tackle roll through effecting his morale. Which not only impacts the tackle but the force fumble/knocked loose check on top of that. You start adding VA's to support that and you have a hard hitting LB. But how many people do you see say LB's have poor SA's.

Or a different example would be Trash talk and The Glare on their own they have little effect. But just because a QB has high morale at the beginning of the game doesn't mean you can chip away at him. You Land a Big Sack or several PD's/Interception all of sudden Trash talk and The Glare start impacting the game more.

That WR can be beat, With things Like Smooth Operator, Shut Down Coverage, Ball Hawk, 3rd Down Stopper, Long Reach, Clutch, and Showboat.

Choices or Actions = Your End Results

Originally posted by bhall43
The problem here is that you are building a WR that isnt built to create separation and outroll a CB. Which is actually fairly easy to do.

Cb's need more va's, and the problem is solved.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Let's assume that you are correct that WRs built for separation can out-roll a CB. Most of those WRs have 70 or so catching, maybe capped strength, and nothing in the possession tree except for some possible points in RR. If they can already out-roll a CB, what is a WR who is made as a pure-possession WR going to do? Those % increases get more valuable the higher the base score the WR has.



Assume? lol...there is no assumptions. It is 100% fact. The guy made as a Pure Possession with 15 equip points in agility and 5 in Catching is currently wasting 15 equipment points....possibly even 20 at that point.

Originally posted by Pietasters
Well in the current sim not many people build a CB like that. But that doesn't mean it's not viable. It seems to me that generating hurries is the key to a good pass defense. A hurry causes the QB to throw a bad throw, which in turn causes the WR/CB to make a vision check. In the current sim in most cases that is a WIN/WIN situation for the CB. You see a much higher PD/Interception result when you cause Bad throws. Smooth Operator will only improve your chances with this kind of defense.

In most cases we are seeing a complete pass coverage defense without thought of putting any pressure on the QB because most of the time the QB will not leave the pocket. Giving him all day to make the throw without any penalty. Case in point would be putting the DE's out into zone on Singleback, Shotgun 3wr and 5WR (if your nice and not running the MLB blitz.) But by going complete pass coverage your allowing the QB to take his time to make the throw. Which improves the chances of the WR making the catch when covered by two or three guys. You put pressure on the QB and he won't make those throws.

It's funny because people complain about things like this WR's build, or to many catches with double or triple coverage but some of it is the direct result of the choices and action you take. It's paper, rock, and scissors.

People haven't even talked about the Complete Aura of Intimidation Defense if we see Morale become more important. Or a complete Shut Down Coverage secondary.

If you really have a good group of agents you could do a Shut Down Coverage and Zone Specialist on your secondary with good shopping. So they are good Man to Man and in Zone. They would always have a bonus to speed and agility so would be able to focus on Strength and Tackling more.

People just tend to write certain things off because someone else said it was bad or that it doesn't work. Like Snarl, You snarl before you tackle reducing Morale and making it easier to tackle. Add Aura of Intimidation Reduces Morale of the players around him. Which again makes him easier to tackle. Which means these things lower the offensive players opposed tackle roll through effecting his morale. Which not only impacts the tackle but the force fumble/knocked loose check on top of that. You start adding VA's to support that and you have a hard hitting LB. But how many people do you see say LB's have poor SA's.

Or a different example would be Trash talk and The Glare on their own they have little effect. But just because a QB has high morale at the beginning of the game doesn't mean you can chip away at him. You Land a Big Sack or several PD's/Interception all of sudden Trash talk and The Glare start impacting the game more.

That WR can be beat, With things Like Smooth Operator, Shut Down Coverage, Ball Hawk, 3rd Down Stopper, Long Reach, Clutch, and Showboat.

Choices or Actions = Your End Results


A lot of those SA's you mention just don't have the power to show legit results tho and whats worse is we can't see it working...you can make guesses to whether it is or not...but nobody even knows for sure. I will be interested to read Catch's results after he takes a look at them when he does.

I would venture to guess most high level corners (on good teams) have a pretty good investment in all of the things you mention. Yet they are still getting stifled through the air against a good WR.