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Fumanchuchu
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I see that the test teams are all end game builds. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a couple mid 30s teams or something like that so tests can be run to see if changes will impact the minors differently than they effect the pros?

By that level most major stats are in place, but the EQ and VAs are wayyyyyy behind.

Not that I've seen huge problems with it, it just seems to send a message that Admin doesn't care what happens in the minors when they don't test changes as they relate to that level.

I know the Pro/WL level is the tops priority, as it should be, but the minors are where players will spend the majority of their careers.

In a perfect world there would be pee-wee tests too to try and prevent the S12 death of passing, but I'm not getting greedy.

Thoughts?
 
pottsman
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The issue with setting up level 30 test builds is first, do you test "good level 30s" or "level 30s who will be good at level 60", as there's a diference between the two. Secondly, balancing game mechanics for them causes problems - if you make the sim work so that level 30s have the ideal passing game...then level 40s suddenly have above ideal, 50s even higher, level 60s it gets insane. You need to balance from one end, not the middle.
 
Ubasstards
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problem is all the slow builders. You cant pass in low level leagues because nobody worked up catching attribute yet
 
Fumanchuchu
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Originally posted by pottsman
The issue with setting up level 30 test builds is first, do you test "good level 30s" or "level 30s who will be good at level 60", as there's a diference between the two. Secondly, balancing game mechanics for them causes problems - if you make the sim work so that level 30s have the ideal passing game...then level 40s suddenly have above ideal, 50s even higher, level 60s it gets insane. You need to balance from one end, not the middle.


I guess there is a ton of variation in low level builds that would make it difficult.

I'm definitely not suggesting that testing should start in the middle, the top leagues should always be the barometer of functionality.

It just seems like it would be more thorough, but I get that time and servers are not infinite.
 
boondocksaint
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Originally posted by pottsman
The issue with setting up level 30 test builds is first, do you test "good level 30s" or "level 30s who will be good at level 60", as there's a diference between the two. Secondly, balancing game mechanics for them causes problems - if you make the sim work so that level 30s have the ideal passing game...then level 40s suddenly have above ideal, 50s even higher, level 60s it gets insane. You need to balance from one end, not the middle.


Tbh, you've got to select "level 30's who will be good at level 60" ahead of "good level 30's", but both should be tested.

Also, secondly, balancing game mechanics shouldn't cause problems... Bort has scaled sim issues in the past according to level, which leads one to believe that it can be done relatively easily.

IMO, all options offensively and defensively should be "available" (read: as a viable option) at all levels of competition. I'll venture a guess that it's far easier said than done, but we are paying to test the game, no?
 
foofighter24
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There is a pretty big problem with focusing on the end of the game. Mainly the idea that if you don't make the first 6-7 seasons of a player's career worth playing, new players are not gonna bother to boost constantly to get to level 70, They will quit and play something else.

As it stands now, we are expecting people to play the game for a year before their player's production is a concern.
 
boondocksaint
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Originally posted by foofighter24
There is a pretty big problem with focusing on the end of the game. ... make the first 6-7 seasons of a player's career worth playing...

As it stands now, we are expecting people to play the game for a year before their player's production is a concern.


I'm agreeing with FF24

Spot on, dude... surprisingly enough lol
 
Deathblade
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So the sim should be balanced around all players having 100 in one attribute, 50 in another, and 15 everywhere else?

mmhmm
 
Torg
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NO, the sim should be fixed so you cant be 100 in one thing and 15s elsewhere. I also totaly agree with FF24 that you have to make the player relevant through his whole career or you will never keep new players. One of my worst moments of GLB, which i joined near the end of season 2, was when i realized my initial guys were horrible because i built them logically as they leveled up, instead of cap building.
 
foofighter24
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Originally posted by Deathblade
So the sim should be balanced around all players having 100 in one attribute, 50 in another, and 15 everywhere else?

mmhmm


Not at all. It should be balanced around well built players for that level. If someone is purely building towards the end game, there is nothing you can do. I don't think anyone has sympathy for the WR with ridiculous speed/agility and little in the way of supporting attributes not performing, but when someone is rounding out earlier, if they can't perform at those levels, their entire GLB experience sucks.
 
boondocksaint
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Originally posted by Deathblade
So the sim should be balanced around all players having 100 in one attribute, 50 in another, and 15 everywhere else?

mmhmm


Dude. I know you and FF have an epic "war" going on, and it's quite funny imo.

That said, are you seriously suggesting that the sim shouldn't be "balanced" (read: viable) at all levels ideally? I'm quite sure it's not the easiest thing to achieve, though I'm also quite sure that it's something that we should be working toward if the game is going to survive/thrive long term.

As it stands, options are have a player be "decent" coming up or build to have a successful (possibly, maybe, if you're lucky) player in the upper levels. Is this really what's best for the game?

Rhetorical question btw... unless someone can supply any sort of evidence to the contrary.
 
Fumanchuchu
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Originally posted by Deathblade
So the sim should be balanced around all players having 100 in one attribute, 50 in another, and 15 everywhere else?

mmhmm


I never suggested balancing the game around it. Just a check for playability when a big game mechanic gets changed.

For instance, the balancing of stamina and confidence that is in discussion (I know it 's just discussion) could really turn things upside down in the minors where no-one is breaking 20 in those stats. It would seem like a couple games could be run to make sure you're not going to have dozens of fumbles from the HB entering some kind of shame spiral. Obviously it's purely hypothetical, but stranger things have happened.

It's what happened to peewee in S12 when the passing mechanics were changed and suddenly going 4-10 for 3ypa became an impossible dream and you could set the over-under at 20. It got fixed the next season but not without a ton of angst and uproar and it was so bad that it could have been spotted in only a couple of test games.

But really I just like using the phrase "shame spiral". If I ever own a yacht....
 
Deathblade
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Originally posted by boondocksaint
That said, are you seriously suggesting that the sim shouldn't be "balanced" (read: viable) at all levels ideally?


No, I'm not saying it shouldn't be.

I'm saying it can't be.
 
notthegint
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Originally posted by Fumanchuchu


For instance, the balancing of stamina and confidence that is in discussion (I know it 's just discussion) could really turn things upside down in the minors where no-one is breaking 20 in those stats. It would seem like a couple games could be run to make sure you're not going to have dozens of fumbles from the HB entering some kind of shame spiral. Obviously it's purely hypothetical, but stranger things have happened.


I don't think this is gonna change how people build that much though. If they need more stamina to get Max XP then they'll get whatever that minimum is, but people still aren't going to touch confidence until they pushed everything else.

The minors games will just be even worse than they are now.


Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
But really I just like using the phrase "shame spiral". If I ever own a yacht....


 
boondocksaint
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Originally posted by Deathblade
No, I'm not saying it shouldn't be.

I'm saying it can't be.


Fair enough...

You know far more than p much anyone regarding the issue. I really do think that we've got to come up with some way of not fucking a player build for elite levels of competition, whilst remaining at least somewhat relevant at lower tiered levels. I'm not even really talking 14 cap (or whatever it is now), but once a player hits mid twenties even my belief is that the sim should at least be worthwhile for any type of intelligent player build.

Not possible?
 
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