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Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Discussions > Morale Reducing SAs (Testing all SA's)
turnit643
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Suggested testing of Morale-reducing SA’s.

Discussion began: 2/13/10
Current post tally in thread: 46

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From Mat McBriar’s “Sunday Snapshot” 2/14/10:

Morale Reducing SAs -
This thread is circled around a proposed test towards Snarl/Growl, Aura of Intimidation, The Glare, and Trash Talk. For clarification this would be an admin run test (most likely Mr. Catch22), hidden from the public eye. Bit of a discussion on it being open, but Catch clarified that it was determined by himself and Bort that this type of testing is better off not accessible to anyone but themselves.


Current status:

Catch22 plans to begin testing at some point (soon, from the sounds of it) to gather more info on how SA's are firing during game play. The goal would ultimately be to evaluate effectiveness of all SA's - determining which (if any) are too strong and which (if any) are not strong enough.


Some quotes from the discussion:

Originally posted by Tester
There's been plenty of talk about these in a few of the current threads, and there has been a general consensus among experienced GLB agents that the morale reducing SAs are just ineffective:
Snarl/Growl
Aura of Intimidation
The Glare
Trash Talk
If those SAs are ineffective, then VAs like "Intimidation" (which I'm not sure if it's Intimidating or Intimidation, there's a difference between the image name and the roll over name) are only amplifying an ineffective number and making them slightly more effective, but I don't see that really being helpful.

Originally posted by Tester
And don't forget about VA's such as Showboat and Showboat Blocker. I know they're not SA's, but it's basically the same mechanism.

Originally posted by Tester
We're discussing adding confidence in importance to an effective build, so if that bears fruit then morale reducing SA/VA's will jump in productivity?

Originally posted by Bort
You know, if we did something along the lines of what [tester] was suggesting last night (having cringing players, etc) things like growl and snarl could make those things happen more often.
I think making morale just do a bit more of a penalty to attributes would probably help some, though.

--

Originally posted by Catch22
as soon as Bort makes test games from Admins hidden I'll start working on testing SA's. I'm going to post a thread so you guys can give me testing ideas - I have a basic plan in mind but someone might come up with something better.

Originally posted by Catch22
yea it's something Bort and I discussed and we feel it's better that this testing not be accessible to anyone but him and I. Definitely open for suggestions on how to conduct and analyze the tests although I do have a good idea of what to do, it doesn't mean it's automatically the only way to do it. Bort will be evaluating in addition to me - especially if I find a SA that is way too weak or too strong.

--

Originally posted by Tester
Are we talking about all SAs, or the morale reducers?

Originally posted by Catch22
All SA's - doing an evaluation of all of them for effectiveness. Going to take me a while obviously.

Originally posted by Catch22
Probably just best that I hunker down for a week and test like a madman. Really the only thing we're looking for are ones that are working too well (firing way too often) and ones that aren't working well at all (firing too little).

--

Originally posted by Tester
I wouldn't agree that "none of them are working too well"...I would say it is definitely the majority though.

Originally posted by Tester
All of the SAs work. I think that a big part of the problem is that they don't scale across builds from level 10 to 74.

For instance:

Shed Block, Wall and Break Through all work at high levels in the game.

This is because their effect scales properly. Adding to strength, agility and break block % is a meaningful effect at every level of the game. I think it's clear that these work pretty well.

Juke and Head Fake work against poorly built defenders and lower level defenders, but work much less well against high level well built players.
High level defenders have vision from 80 to 100+, and so much speed and agility that they easily recover from momentary fakes. They still work with outrageously fast players, who only need a momentary blink to get by. Getting them to be effective against these players without high speed is not actually impossible, but it is indeed pretty difficult.

These work with moderate effect.

The Glare and Trash Talk are actually pretty devastating against low level QBs who have not developed confidence. However, every high level QB in the game has confidence above 70, some significantly higher.
Add Offensive General and Motivational speaker to the mix, and these SAs are not going to play a big role with high level guys (and if they did, then they would simply cripple low level guys in an instant).

Scaling some of these SAs with operational attributes in some fashion would probably help matters a bit.



Summary:

Discussion by testers outside of these quotes has largely been theories of how SA's & VA's currently work and/or how they would ideally work. Going forward, discussion is likely to be in regards to suggesting/fine-tuning testing methods for this project and analyzing the results that eventually come from it.
Edited by turnit643 on Feb 18, 2010 03:00:39
 
ijg
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Originally posted by turnit643
Originally posted by Catch22
Probably just best that I hunker down for a week and test like a madman. Really the only thing we're looking for are ones that are working too well (firing way too often) and ones that aren't working well at all (firing too little).


Umm, I thought when I asked about this in another thread last week I was told that no SAs would be nerfed, only those not working well would be buffed.

Now, it sounds like that's changed. Can we get some clarification please?
 
TxSteve
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can you link that previous post ijq?
 
ijg
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I responded to catch's mention of SA changes here with concern

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3775550&page=52#33400304

PP responded here with a pretty strong statement that we would have buffs, not nerfs. Now that's not as official as Catch or Bort (as he stated), but from a very prominent tester to make a fairly strong statement to me carries some weight.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3775550&page=52#33400659

If nerfing SAs is back on the table, then my comments in the first post about that being something that should be done very delicately stands, especially if we're talking about nerfs at multiple positions that can seriously weaken a team.
 
Mstr_October
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Is there any kind of update to this? The Original post is a month old now. Will any information be shared? Will any VAs be buffed/nerfed as a result?
 
Catch22
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I was busy testing the new SA's and doing other projects. Since I'm the only one who can do these tests people are just going to have to be patient. I'll get to them when I have time.
 
Mstr_October
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Just trying to help ya earn your pay bro

Thanks for the reply too. I am just trying to figure out which of these bonus SAs to add to my players. I was just very happy to see some of the SAs are going to get looked at, especially some of the ones that seem to lose all effectiveness at higher levels (morale reducers). If they are modified to scale, I, and many others I presume, would be interested in choosing some as bonus SAs, but since we are stuck with the bonus SA for life, I am trying to get as much info as possible before making a decision.

Thanks again.
 
Catch22
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Thread locked by moderator.
 


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