Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PP
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1746

all 4 elusive HBs on balanced. It looked good to me.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1747
TCTF 2 elusives set to 50 elusive
Jack's 2 elusives set to 90 elusive

I'd think the HBs should probably head for the sidelines more
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377808 (or cut harder inside)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377810 (on 90 elusive, I'd think he should angle more towards the sidelines to avoid the ROB as long as possible)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377811 (either go around the WR, skirting the sideline tight or cut hard back inside)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377812 (keep racing for the edge before cutting up)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377816 (if the HB just keeps going for the sidelines this becomes a good play)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377817 (outside the WR)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377823 (I could by this one more, since this is a 50 setting, but still be better heading for sideline)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377830 (on 90, he really should still be racing for the sidelines)

Both the TE and FB turn mentally challenged a bit too much yet
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377815
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377818
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1747&pbp_id=377826 (notice the hitch in the FB before the block...seeing that semi often)

Thoughts:
I'd think that the 90 setting HBs should be trying to stay away from the D dots more and using the sidelines a lot more.
Also think there should be more hard cuts to avoid defenders at 90
Think fakes could use a modest boost (nothing massive...just occur 10% more).
TE & FB blocking still not where it needs to be
To many encroachment penalties

Elusive settings different on the teams as noted above, but the HB builds are identical

Elusive HB1 (Lv. 70 HB)
Ht/Wt: 6'2", 193lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $0
Daily Salary: $4172
Skill Points: 0
Training Points: 7
Bonus Tokens: 255
Veteran Points: 30
Next Level: 800/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 35
Speed: 122 (+42)
Agility: 75
Jumping: 25
Stamina: 50
Vision: 50
Confidence: 50

Football Skills
Blocking: 20
Catching: 57 (+2)
Tackling: 10
Throwing: 20
Carrying: 65
Kicking: 10
Punting: 10

Special Abilities
Elusive Back Abilities
Quick Cut: 9
Head Fake: 11
First Step: 6
Juke: 6
Spin: 2

Power Back Abilities
Cover Up: 4
Lower the Shoulder: 0
Stiff Arm: 0
Power Through: 0
Dive for Yardage: 0

Veteran Abilities
Track Star: 15
Quick Feet: 15
Scat Back: 15
YAC attack: 15

speed back (Lv. 43 HB)
Ht/Wt: 6'2", 186lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $0
Daily Salary: $5425
Skill Points: 0
Training Points: 7
Bonus Tokens: 255
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 0/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 49.42
Speed: 114.42 (+23)
Agility: 85.42 (+6)
Jumping: 50.24
Stamina: 50.24
Vision: 70.42 (+3)
Confidence: 52.42

Football Skills
Blocking: 10.24
Catching: 50.24
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10.24
Carrying: 49.42
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Elusive Back Abilities
Quick Cut: 9
Head Fake: 11
First Step: 11
Juke: 11
Spin: 7

Power Back Abilities
Cover Up: 6
Lower the Shoulder: 0
Stiff Arm: 0
Power Through: 0
Dive for Yardage: 0

Veteran Abilities
Quick Feet: 15
Slippery: 15

Originally posted by PP
To many encroachment penalties


How many VA's were invested in Hard Count? It is the only VA to give a +6% bonus, if i recall correctly. Is there any other thought to causes, w/o saying "more vision" or "fix your builds?"

Many DC's have noticed that there are too many encroachment vs offsides penalties all season.

Originally posted by timthorn
How many VA's were invested in Hard Count? It is the only VA to give a +6% bonus, if i recall correctly. Is there any other thought to causes, w/o saying "more vision" or "fix your builds?"

Many DC's have noticed that there are too many encroachment vs offsides penalties all season.

the QBs both have 15. Still, I could see 1/2 that many, but it's just too much as is, imo

Same backs, same settings as above

Originally posted by PP
Inside rushes with new elusive pathing
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1749

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378210 (would have liked to see it kick outside at the end)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378224 (should kick it out)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378226 (kick out)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378240 (nice all the way up until the end...he should have angled for the sideline to pick up another yd or 2)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378253 (should really be able to see and hit that hole)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378254 (should have cut to the left)

FB goes brain dead too much
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378229 (love the elusive pathing on this though)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378266
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378313 (notice the hiccup)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378329
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378337 (HB should dance, but the FB shouldn't)

All in all, I really like the pathing on inside stuff
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1749&pbp_id=378218
I'd really just like to see the new pathing try to string things out to the sidelines more when applicable and use hard cuts to daylight more (seem to have issues with cutting to the weak side). Hit those 2 things and I think we have a winner. As DB pointed out earlier, it's already better than what we have on the live server.

As I've mentioned in nearly every test, too many encroachment penalties

I really think elusive will be "okay" at best until ball carriers are able to read blocks and cut off of them/set them up.

If a CB is heading outside to cut a HB off, and the WR is in side of the CB, the HB (with the right vision check pass) should cut inside. Then, the CB will try to head inside and bam, be met by the WR. Block set-up 101.

As for reading the block, there quite a few plays where the ball carrier reacts to the defender and seems to ignore the fact that he's being blocked, or ignores the SIDE of the defender that the blocker is holding. I'm not sure why.

Referencing the first post

Hmm. I kinda disagree with PP on trying to get the HB's to race to the sidelines for as long as possible. I think it'd be boring to see the HB's constantly sprint for the line, it also increases the chance of a force out at a lesser gain when the HB could have gotten more if he had cut up then approached the line as threats got closer again. Going outside the WR is one thing, tip-toeing the sideline for no reason is another

I do agree that the HB should follow the blocks a little better at times.

For the plays that you highlighted for the TE and FB blocking. I only thought there was something fundementally wrong with the first one. In which case it looks like its possible the FB made a bad decision with a vision check or something. The second one, the FB just loses his grip on a DE, the last one I thought looked good blocking choices, the SS just made the tackle

Staz, completely agree....For what it's worth, Matt brought that up on the test server. I just don't see it happening this off ssn.

TehKyou, I don't think they should just head for the sidelines. I just don't see them using the sidelines well at all (otherwise, I think they're p good). also, when set at 90 elusive, I do think they need to try to avoid D dots more, and that's most often accomplished by either hitting holes or stringing things out to the sidelines, attempting to either beat the D dot there or have a hole open. If they aren't going to try harder to avoid tklers (which comes at a cost, as you suggest), then why be able to set elusive to 90+? That's my thought, anyway.

Originally posted by PP
Staz, completely agree....For what it's worth, Matt brought that up on the test server. I just don't see it happening this off ssn.

TehKyou, I don't think they should just head for the sidelines. I just don't see them using the sidelines well at all (otherwise, I think they're p good). also, when set at 90 elusive, I do think they need to try to avoid D dots more, and that's most often accomplished by either hitting holes or stringing things out to the sidelines, attempting to either beat the D dot there or have a hole open. If they aren't going to try harder to avoid tklers (which comes at a cost, as you suggest), then why be able to set elusive to 90+? That's my thought, anyway.

If elusive HBs get improved pathing, I think the defense also needs to figure out ways to improve their angles and what not. Rarely, and I mean RARELY do I see a DE or LB forcing the HB to stretch the play out and allow the rest of the D to come in. Also, I'd like to figure out a way for defenders to "show" upfield and force the ball carrier to cut inside, where the rest of the defense is. For those who don't know what that is, it's a player getting behind the LOS and instead of attacking the ball carrier, they break down a few yards behind the LOS and more or less influence and force the HB to cut underneath, into the heart of the defense.

I'm not sure how that could be designed, at all, though.

Originally posted by Staz

If elusive HBs get improved pathing, I think the defense also needs to figure out ways to improve their angles and what not. Rarely, and I mean RARELY do I see a DE or LB forcing the HB to stretch the play out and allow the rest of the D to come in. Also, I'd like to figure out a way for defenders to "show" upfield and force the ball carrier to cut inside, where the rest of the defense is. For those who don't know what that is, it's a player getting behind the LOS and instead of attacking the ball carrier, they break down a few yards behind the LOS and more or less influence and force the HB to cut underneath, into the heart of the defense.

I'm not sure how that could be designed, at all, though.

Good point.
The way to desgin it is the same way it is done in real life. All players on defense need to have a role when the HB takes the ball. Some just "target" the Hb directly, some "force" him to cut inside and some take
a "pursuit" angle to intercept him if he break free.

Originally posted by Staz
If elusive HBs get improved pathing, I think the defense also needs to figure out ways to improve their angles and what not. Rarely, and I mean RARELY do I see a DE or LB forcing the HB to stretch the play out and allow the rest of the D to come in. Also, I'd like to figure out a way for defenders to "show" upfield and force the ball carrier to cut inside, where the rest of the defense is. For those who don't know what that is, it's a player getting behind the LOS and instead of attacking the ball carrier, they break down a few yards behind the LOS and more or less influence and force the HB to cut underneath, into the heart of the defense.

I'm not sure how that could be designed, at all, though.

I see this as one of the next major projects, myself...Don't know if Bort sees it that way, but I do LOL...Also, HBs slowing down and following blocks, as well as the D being able to fake and disguise blitzes. I created a list of things I wanted to see this offssn (don't know if they'll happen) and those 3 would have been 9, 10 & 11. Just remember, this is my list that I indirectly gave to Bort (gave to Catch who in turn gave to Bort). This isn't Bort's list and I have no clue what he's thinking.

1) Fix the pulling Gs and make them work
2) Fix the broken plays (draw, QB draw, HB Dive (Shotgun), HB Quick Pitch Weak (Pro Set), WR screen, TE screen, FB & HB blocking on all outside QB runs and so on)
3) Add new plays and test them
4) iron out the new QB targeting (side note, it seems the anticipation of getting open isn't working since we put that it)
5) go with the new zone reaction times, but increase the PDs & Ints for DBs
6) Get the audibles in the state we want to release them in and test them
7) Dial down the encroachment penalties
8) finish off the elusive pathing (close, but not there yet)

Originally posted by PP
I'd think that the 90 setting HBs should be trying to stay away from the D dots more and using the sidelines a lot more.

Apparently you never met Royal Williams, lol
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=917106&pbp_id=7238414
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=917048&pbp_id=13828032 (this could have been a TD)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=917117&pbp_id=10972661

^ That was on 99 elusive though, but that's only 9 higher than 90, so *shrug.* I don't mind HB's stepping of bounds, but they need a better nose for the first down marker. In that first and third link, the HB fails to cross the first down marker before going out of bounds. Inexcusable imho.

'its a vision problem coupled with agility'. I had a thread on crap like that in the past. The mods simply told me that the HB didnt have high enough vision nor enough agility to *stop or slow down* enough to change his course. I dont buy it, its terrible coding and logic. What was the vision, agility and speed on that guy?

No....it's a coding issue that apparently is a real pain in the ass to get right

Originally posted by PP
No....it's a coding issue that apparently is a real pain in the ass to get right

Yeah, I've looked at it from the outside a few times and from what I understand on how Bort's pathing works, he's got a real issue with sidelines. There isn't just "one right setting" for sideline awareness/fear/etc, it's going to depend significantly on the player build, elusiveness setting, position on the field and current motion on pathing update ticks, etc. It's a mess.

Originally posted by TheGreatAus
'its a vision problem coupled with agility'. I had a thread on crap like that in the past. The mods simply told me that the HB didnt have high enough vision nor enough agility to *stop or slow down* enough to change his course. I dont buy it, its terrible coding and logic. What was the vision, agility and speed on that guy?


Players with too much vision have this happen to them.