Warrior General Games

I've got a returner with very good agility, and also a spin/headfake aeq.

would a 3 agility/ +break tackle aeq be worth it with enough return spec?

that is an incredbile piece.

im jealous.

i have a PR/KR with +3 spd, +5% brk tckle. its godly.

i just rolled a +3 agi + RS on my strong safety

i wept

Originally posted by RMiller517
I've got a returner with very good agility, and also a spin/headfake aeq.

would a 3 agility/ +break tackle aeq be worth it with enough return spec?

i think it depends on your build

Break Tackle % piece will be good if you have a STR/TKL build and a heavier guy
Return Specialist will help you with Tackle Avoidance which is not the same as Break tackle

If you have a SPD/AGL build with good VIS, then Id think twice about the Break Tackle piece becos your base level of Break Tackle will be very low

of course the +3 AGL is rather nice

Originally posted by oaklandraider
i think it depends on your build

Break Tackle % piece will be good if you have a STR/TKL build and a heavier guy
Return Specialist will help you with Tackle Avoidance which is not the same as Break tackle

If you have a SPD/AGL build with good VIS, then Id think twice about the Break Tackle piece becos your base level of Break Tackle will be very low

of course the +3 AGL is rather nice

Not quite. Break tackle works with Spin, as does the 'tackle avoidance' from Return Specialist. Also, tackle avoidance does not effect fakes (in a nutshell, Return Specialist/Spin/break tackle is one combo, Juke/Head Fake/fake chance is another).

Originally posted by PP

From the test server tonight....Just thought I'd share, in case someone else had the same ?s

Originally posted by PP


I was asked today if the % Fake AEQ only helps increase the effectiveness of Fake SAs or if it's a straight boost to faking ability period. In other words, is it completely worthless if you don't have SAs?


Originally posted by Bort


Yes, It is only for fake SA's, since that is really the only way to fake anyone. Player's don't fake without head fake or something.


Originally posted by PP


So Return Spec must have built in HF & Juke? I assume % fake would work with that, also?


Originally posted by Bort


No, Return Specialist gives you bonuses to speed and agility and tackle avoidance (like Spin or jumping over diving tackles), not head fake or juke abilities.


Originally posted by PP


Interesting...I know a lot of CBs returners that have % fake AEQ.

Edit: I assume you wouldn't mind me making a post on this on the live server forum?


Originally posted by Bort


Yeah, that's fine. If the ability improved head fakes or jukes, it would say so.

interesting, so spin would be the SA to get for CB return men once the archetypes are implemented is that right?

well, spin will benefit from having return specialist, but spin also relies heavily on your overall tackle avoidance which is your strength/carrying moreso than agility... not to mention your running style. if you want more spin rolls, then you have to lean away from a purely evasive build.

juking may not benefit from RS, but it's not so reliant on having the strength/speed to make it work...

i really want to try to make a spin/break tackle build for my returner but a juking/avoidance strategy is very proven and probably easier to do.

for a spin build on a cb, i'm thinking you would need the spin bonus sa, a spin aeq, and a break tackle chance aeq... then you have to build up your strength/carrying as if you're making a poor man's powerback.

Originally posted by Bacon Nator
interesting, so spin would be the SA to get for CB return men once the archetypes are implemented is that right?

I've always been told and my firsthand knowledge adds to it, that Juke > Spin for most returners. Particularly, as the previous posted said, you have the high speed/agility and you're not exactly pumped to the hilt with strength and carrying.

I plan to go with Juke.

Oh, and to the OP, that's a good piece, and worth buying now because you may not get a better one for a while, but if you're getting rid of a +Return Specialist piece to accomodate it, no, I would not do that.

Originally posted by Pagypie
well, spin will benefit from having return specialist, but spin also relies heavily on your overall tackle avoidance which is your strength/carrying moreso than agility... not to mention your running style. if you want more spin rolls, then you have to lean away from a purely evasive build.

juking may not benefit from RS, but it's not so reliant on having the strength/speed to make it work...

i really want to try to make a spin/break tackle build for my returner but a juking/avoidance strategy is very proven and probably easier to do.

for a spin build on a cb, i'm thinking you would need the spin bonus sa, a spin aeq, and a break tackle chance aeq... then you have to build up your strength/carrying as if you're making a poor man's powerback.
Pretty sure Spin is a broken tackle, and not really tackle avoidance. Then again I could just be splitting hairs on terminology.

Originally posted by Tigam

Pretty sure Spin is a broken tackle, and not really tackle avoidance. Then again I could just be splitting hairs on terminology.

not splitting hairs; they are the same thing. you ability to break a tackle is a reflection of your tackle avoidance.

Originally posted by Pagypie
not splitting hairs; they are the same thing. you ability to break a tackle is a reflection of your tackle avoidance.



I don't believe they are the same thing in programming terms. Stiff arm, Spin, and the like are broken tackles, meaning a tackle has to be attempted for it to fire. Juke, Head Fake, and the like are tackle avoidance. Meaning no roll for tackle took place for them to fire.

Or in a nutshell one set allows for the ability to be tackled, but is built to break it. The other is going out of the way to remove the chance of the tackle at all.

I think CB's should be trying for the latter.

nope: juke and head fake are fakes --> fake chance

spin is tackle avoidance --> break tackle

And I should be rolling with the same piece the op found (3 Agi/+5% break tackle). I plan on choosing Spin as his bonus SA when he goes to the returner archetype. Spin + Return Specialist + break tackle + slippery/quick feet.

Originally posted by Pagypie
nope: juke and head fake are fakes --> fake chance

spin is tackle avoidance --> break tackle


*shrugs* ok.