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PP
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Originally posted by PP
OK...I ran a test on the pulling Gs (screwed the 1st 2 up, because I had basic set to run right 100% and didn't couldn't figure out why it only ran right)

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1647

Honestly, can't really tell much of anything on most plays, since the 70/75 & 70/77 speed/agility Gs are way too slow to get anywhere to be useful. so, I'm running them again. with 100/80 speed & agility. The only reason I posted this here is as a reminder that it doesn't do any good to fix the blocking on the pulls if the Gs can't get there anyway.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1647&pbp_id=356859
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1647&pbp_id=356863


Originally posted by PP
Test game with faster Gs
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1648

HB Pitch (Single Back)
G should really be looking for someone other than the DE to block, when the LOT has him. When the DE is blocked, I'd swing him out a little more and then down fiield. When the DE beats his block, blocking the DE as he currently does nearly every time should be his 1st priority.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357023 (should be going down field here)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357024 (does the right thing, but ignores the FS...path him outside a little more when the DE is blocked and increase his radius looking for unblocked D dots?)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357030 (needs to look downfield)

Pitch Weak (Strong I)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357025 (not bad really)

I Pitch Weak (I)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357029 (p good)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357042 (nice)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357043 (should pickup the DE on this one)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357048 (nice)

HB Sweep Weak (Weak I)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357031 (same as the 1 back, in that the G should only block the DE when he is or has beat his block)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357035 (same, and FB really needs to pickup that ROLB)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357037 (beautiful example of what the G should do here)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357038 (but then he goes brain dead)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357039 (shouldn't pass the ROLB for the FS)

Power Toss (Weak I)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357054 (no complaint here)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357055 (same)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357056 (beautiful)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357058


 
Iron Maiden
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Saving a post for later edit.
 
garddog
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the problem with almost all of the G pulls is that the OT is blocking the wrong player. The Guard should be kicking out the DE that the OT is blocking and the OT should be blocking the OLB. Most of the plays should be run off tackle, but every single outside run goes all the way outside.

The other issue in almost all those plays is that the center is double teaming away from the play. He should be moving downfield to block the MLB.
Edited by garddog on Dec 29, 2009 20:59:44
 
tragula
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Most of the replays of the pulling OG taking the DE are a consequence of the OT failing his job, rather then bad coding. Unless there are some late sim changes that affect that a free blocker will not double team a blocked defender.
Maybe a test with a very powerful OT will help seeing the way the OG blocks in the open field.

Regrading RG pulling to the left side. In RL it only make sense when there is some kind of misdirection to slow the defense (a counter step) or at least something that will delay the HB.

Comments on PP notes:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357054 (no complaint here) - I rather see the HB tries to beat the MLB with speed and the OG going for the SS. The play is not the worse outcome, but also not the perfect one.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357043 (should pickup the DE on this one) - The DE made a great move, the RG didn't had much chance to interfer (letting the FB take care of the DE). No need to make the pulling guard too good, until he turns upfield he should be somewhat "dumb".
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357048 (nice) - I do not like to see the RG going upfield until he clears the OT. With that great block by the OT the ROLB will have hard time getting to the ball carrier.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1648&pbp_id=357031 - what's up with the FB ?
 
QB Eater
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So, the Pulling VA is pretty much a waste and it is still a waste of time to try and build an OG who can pull, right? Just want to make sure I understand the conclusion.

Thanks.
 
CoachCoughlin
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they shouldn't have made Pulling linemen VA available until they have made sure that it works!!

lolGLB
Edited by CoachCoughlin on Mar 1, 2010 10:03:16
 
InRomoWeTrust
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Originally posted by QB Eater
So, the Pulling VA is pretty much a waste and it is still a waste of time to try and build an OG who can pull, right? Just want to make sure I understand the conclusion.

Thanks.


No. The Pulling VA is not a waste and is actually very helpful if you run a significant amount of plays where the specific player is going to be pulling. It was basically created to counter a pulling guard's lack of ability.
 
tricon
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Originally posted by CoachCoughlin
they shouldn't have made Pulling linemen VA available until they have made sure that it works!!

lolGLB


I don't have scripts or anything, but I believe that this Pulling linemen VA is working as intended. It's not too over powering or anything, but it does give the G a boost to help them pull.

One still must have a G that is correctly built to use this effectively. A G can not just have 30 speed and expect that G to perform as some of the G in the test plays.

As more OCs get more adjusted to this VA, I believe that the opinion will be that Bort and the tester have hit the nail on the head with this VA and how it should perform.

Now, if Bort and Team would just go address the other irregularities in the sim ...

Tricon
 
QB Eater
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Has anyone tested the Pulling Guard VA and compared it to the test done here? How do we know it is working as intended?
 
ddingo
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Originally posted by QB Eater
Has anyone tested the Pulling Guard VA and compared it to the test done here? How do we know it is working as intended?


The VA works as described.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by tricon
I don't have scripts or anything, but I believe that this Pulling linemen VA is working as intended. It's not too over powering or anything, but it does give the G a boost to help them pull.

One still must have a G that is correctly built to use this effectively. A G can not just have 30 speed and expect that G to perform as some of the G in the test plays.

As more OCs get more adjusted to this VA, I believe that the opinion will be that Bort and the tester have hit the nail on the head with this VA and how it should perform.

Now, if Bort and Team would just go address the other irregularities in the sim ...

Tricon


certainly isnt overpowering or anything...you get a small bump...just enough i guess for some OG's.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by Mat McBriar
No. The Pulling VA is not a waste and is actually very helpful if you run a significant amount of plays where the specific player is going to be pulling. It was basically created to counter a pulling guard's lack of ability.


I wouldn't go as far as to call it a waste at this point...but i was expecting some better results myself.
 
tautology
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Originally posted by bhall43
certainly isnt overpowering or anything...you get a small bump...just enough i guess for some OG's.


Pretty big bump actually. As to whether it's worthwhile depends on your OC.

 
taz20075
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Doesn't that make the question "How do I build an effective guard when I have to get close to 100/80 (SPD/AGI in OP) for it to really be useful, without getting pancaked on eery other play?"
 
jakobnielsen
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With the VA maxed out, what kind of speed/agility seems needed know to actually make the pull work?
 
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