Goal Line Blitz - American Football MMORPG

didymus
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Jan 28, 2009 00:34:00

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http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1182063&page=77#16090043
Originally posted by Bort
There will never be a full-respec option. Partial maybe, but not full, so don't bother going down that route.

A friend of mine made a suggestion while I was eating dinner with him a while ago, though, which sounded sorta interesting. I haven't done the math for exploitability, but the idea is: give the ability to de-train one attribute while training something else up. No SP assignments; just reverse training in exchange for training another skill. It could cost training points, and would allow you to respec your player naturally over time.

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 00:45:51

didymus
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Jan 28, 2009 00:35:41

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http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1182063&page=78#16117533
Originally posted by mandyross
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by TheInfinity

Originally posted by Bort
I was talking about attributes with the de-training, not SA's. SA's would have to be done with skill point assignments because they are whole numbers.

Oh. So it would be like a boosting effect to the attribute you are training while lowering the other attribute?

Yeah, using the training curve. Seems like a zero-sum sort of thing - I don't think you can really game the math there, but I might be missing something.

It might encourage slow builders to boost an attribute crazily high really early, wait some levels for it to be in the 10:1 range of SP or the like and then reverse train it to give huge gains to the other attributes which are still in the 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 ranges.

The punter with 100 natural punting would be able to reverse train it with a 20:1 ratio!

If you're not careful, then the most effective way to build a player would soon be to boost one attribute as high as possible as early as possible - even worse than it currently is where people at least focus on taking 2, 3 attributes through the caps - and then use that one attribute to leach the SP it gains from level ups into the other attributes. This exploit would lead to hugely unrealistic builds for the first 5ish seasons of a player's life, as people try to take one thing as close to 100 naturally as possible.

However, only you know the precise maths

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 00:47:58

didymus
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Jan 28, 2009 00:38:09

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http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1182063&page=78#16120839
Originally posted by EagleOtto
Could have it costs 3TPs to reduce one stat by the same amount training would raise it, and boost another stat by its normal train x1.5 Tha'ts quite expensive for 150% price of a normal train, you gain the 150% gain in one stat, BUT you'd lose the secondary stat.
So the cost would detrimental but not too high that it would be useless.

The other idea would be maybe to add something for a 1BP cost, so that it can't be used too much.
For 1BP (no tp cost) raise 1 stat up the normal training amount, while reducing another by the normal training cost.
BPs are valuable so this again would be reigned in by its cost.

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 00:48:22

didymus
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Jan 28, 2009 00:38:24

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sorry for my clumsy quoting

thanks Nixxx

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 00:48:49

Nixx
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Jan 28, 2009 00:39:24

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Epic to replace the other respec thread. http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1182063

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 00:50:10

SwagOnLock
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Jan 28, 2009 00:40:58

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What the fuck is happening here

bamaplaya1
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Jan 28, 2009 00:42:58

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quote=name] is a lot neater

Nixx
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Jan 28, 2009 00:44:02

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Originally posted by didymus
sorry for my clumsy quoting

Yeah, should have gotten the properly formatted quotes before I locked it.

Guess I'll do 'em.

Nixx
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Jan 28, 2009 00:49:46

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Maybe I should un-epic it for now, get some more discussion going?

didymus
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Jan 28, 2009 00:53:21

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I guess I could buy into this SP re-distribution.

It's slow, deliberate, and eats up TP's.

Mandyross's comments seem to make a kind of sense, I can feel that the exploit is there, it's tricky to wrap my brain around it though.

Perhaps the trade-off shouldn't be 1 for 1? Maybe .8 for 1? Or maybe cost 6 or 7 TP instead of 5?

Feels like calculas class in here.

edit: or perhaps this retraining, while costing TP's, did not return BT's.

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 01:04:47

ryan_grant-25
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Jan 28, 2009 07:05:23

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i dont like the idea to begin with, but i think it will happen.

fightomega
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Jan 28, 2009 08:32:44

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+1 @ this

joeami
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Jan 28, 2009 08:41:09

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Originally posted by ryan_grant-25
i dont like the idea to begin with, but i think it will happen.

Basically my thinking. It's going to take WAY too long to get our guys to where we'd like. I haven't looked through the other thread, and I haven't seen it answered here, so I don't know, but this would be a choice option, correct? Either train normal, or transfer points? How do we determine how much to transfer? Say a 70+ skill gets 4% (so .04 points) normal on training, how much would we be able to actually transfer?

Jed
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Jan 28, 2009 09:44:38

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From what I'm reading, yea, it would be optional.

And so what if it would take a while? At least you'd get to slowly move points you realized you wasted and not have things be completely lost.

As for how to get around the idea of getting 1 skill EXTREMELY high and then reverse-training it to somehow benefit a lower skill, I'd say it should work like this:

Take the %'s you would get from training the 2 skills in question (the one to be trained and the one to be untrained). Whichever % gives a lower amount is the % that the one skill is trained down and that % + a small amount is trained up.

That way, it doesn't matter if you train a skill high and then untrain or purposely leave a skill low and train up a higher skill with that one, you would always end up with a fair amount.

The "optimal" way to do it would be to use 2 skills which are near each other to train up/down, but at the same time, it wouldn't really add much more than just training the 1 skill normally, would only be a slight bonus while the 2 are very close to each other, and you'd be missing out on Bonus Tokens and Shopping Tokens by doing so.

And in the meantime, Bort did also say that an SA respec would be a possibility, which I'd really like to see.

Xiong Yoshi
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Jan 28, 2009 12:16:56

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Ok, here is how someone could game this idea:

Level 1 Player is created and Trains up as normal.. saving their SPs as they level until they get enough to take a skill to Second Softcap. Player reaches level 7 and now has enough SPs to take one attribute to 61. That attribute has been trained upon and now has 80% (or whatever)... The player dumps all of the SPs into it taking it to second softcap.

Player now uses the Detrain to get rid of those 80% and put them into another attribute. Because the 80% were gained at about 40% per training (because the attribute was at 15 when it was being trained), it only took 2 days to get it up to 80%.. but now that the attribute is 60+, it's training percentage is 8%. Now they transfer the training from the above skill into a new skill. Being level 7, and having dumped all of their SPs into the first attribute, the second attribute is still 15. If the idea is to use a transfer to give 2x the training to 1 attribute, but reduce another by 1x training.. then you spend 8% from the first attribute to gain 40% in the second.

Now, this type of "gaming" would really be limited... so it isn't a swapping back and forth for gain type of gaming... and if one was convinced that they wanted to introduce some mechanism of reskilling, this is probably a minor concern compared to intentionally introducing severe inefficiencies to prevent this type of gaming.

Last edited Jan 28, 2009 12:18:12

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