Warrior General Games

Defensive Tactics Test - Inside/Outside run

When Rob and Parab00n were testing Defensive Tactics, I couldn’t remember the results of Inside and Outside Runs - perhaps because they didn’t test it. It’s intrigued me for awhile, so I made up a clear test of the play calling of Inside and Outside.

I did a test of Inside and Outside Run selections on the Defensive Tactics Matrix. This game is that test. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/306470

If you have GLB2Scout access, you can scout team 397 and 1038 for this game. Look at the Defensive play calling for both.

Here’s the test parameters:

Both teams ran the same O playbook - a 2WR only set that had Inside, Outside and Medium Pass plays.

Both teams ran the same D playbook. Against 2WR, they both had (Short Pass/Run) 4-3 Cover 1 Man, (Medium Pass/Run) 4-3 Cover 2 Man Under and (Long Pass) 3-4 Sky Man Under. All plays had 5 buttons.

NPW ran 100% Inside Run for the Defensive Tactics Matrix.
LZ ran 100% Outside Run for the Defensive Tactics Matrix.

The Goal was to determine which Short/Med/Long play would be selected when Inside Run was selected and when Outside Run was selected.

Here’s the results:

NPW went 100% Inside Run and ran the Short Pass/Run play Cover 1 Man 96 times and the other plays zero times.

LZ went 100% Outside Run and ran the Short Pass/Run play Cover 1 Man 95 times and the other plays zero times.

Conclusion:
When Inside Run is used by the Defensive Tactics Matrix and there is no Inside Run play in the Playbook, 100% of the time a Short Pass/Run play is selected. A Medium Pass/Run play has 0% chance. A Long play has 0%. All Long plays are Pass-only so they really couldn’t be selected anyway.

When Outside Run is used by the Defensive Tactics Matrix and there is no Outside Run play in the Playbook, 100% of the time a Short Pass/Run play is selected. A Medium Pass/Run play has 0% chance. A Long play has 0%. All Long plays are Pass-only so they really couldn’t be selected anyway.

In my view, Inside Runs should choose Short plays over Medium plays.
However, Outside Runs should choose Long, then Medium and then Short in my view.

Inside > Short > Medium > Long
Outside > Long > Medium > Short

(Note: All Long Pass plays would/should be changed to Long Pass/Run plays - otherwise they still wouldn’t get called with the above implemented fix.)

This again exposes the problem on Defense. The Tactics Matrix has a few flaws, but it is the lack of Distance tagging of the Defensive plays available that cause the most problems.

The Tactics Matrix should work as I described a long time ago:

First check is Distance: Short - Medium - Long
Second check is Direction: Normal (default is 0) - Inside - Outside
Third check is Zone: yes or no (% basis)
Fourth check is Blitz: yes or no (% basis)

What we have is this:

First check is Direction: Inside - Outside, if none present then default to Distance: Short
Second check is Distance: Short - Medium - Long, if Direction wasn’t chosen above
Third check is Zone: yes or no (% basis)
Fourth check is Blitz: yes or no (% basis)

I’d like the Tactics Matrix changed.

However, whether it is or is not changed, we will still need more Distance tagging of Defensive plays.

This is really the critical point that Bort and Cdog continue to miss. What’s amazing to me is why they don’t implement my suggestion at least on a trial basis. Simply copying the available Short plays and creating a Medium and Long version would dramatically change the game (and then repeating this for Medium and Long).

It would require zero coding. It’s copy and paste.

To Bort/Cdog: Reach out to me. Let’s have a conference call. Let’s fix the game and make it better.

Excellent job Xars

I think I recall testing inside/outside run defense before but I never did it without inside/outside run defenses in the playbook. I do remember that it will pick a rush defense if there is one available. This includes outside run even if you put down inside run but obviously you would need the outside run play in the playbook. It's just like short/medium/long pass settings, the game will always look for the closest thing then move on.

So if you put down inside run, it will look for inside run then outside run then due to your testing it will go to short pass.
Outside run will look for outside run then inside run and then due to your testing it will go to short pass.
Pass Short will go to pass short and then look for anything that is Pass Medium or long and call them equally.
Pass Medium will go to pass medium and then look for anything that is pass short or pass long and call them equally.
Pass Long will go to pass long and then look for anything that is pass short or pass medium and call them equally.

Not sure what will happen if you put inside and outside run defenses in the playbook only and then call pass short, medium or long. Will it call the plays equal or favor one or the other?

Originally posted by Rob.

I think I recall testing inside/outside run defense before but I never did it without inside/outside run defenses in the playbook.

Yeah I remembered something similar. I thought you tested it but as part of the whole rather than in isolation.

Originally posted by Rob.

So if you put down inside run, it will look for inside run then outside run then due to your testing it will go to short pass.
Outside run will look for outside run then inside run and then due to your testing it will go to short pass.
Pass Short will go to pass short and then look for anything that is Pass Medium or long and call them equally.
Pass Medium will go to pass medium and then look for anything that is pass short or pass long and call them equally.
Pass Long will go to pass long and then look for anything that is pass short or pass medium and call them equally.

Not sure what will happen if you put inside and outside run defenses in the playbook only and then call pass short, medium or long. Will it call the plays equal or favor one or the other?

Some things to further test.

I'm going to test this first:
So if you put down inside run, it will look for inside run then outside run then due to your testing it will go to short pass.
And
Outside run will look for outside run then inside run and then due to your testing it will go to short pass.

I can test one with NPW and one with LZ. Scrim scheduled. Data soon.

Test Results of Inside and Outside Run when the OTHER is present.

Here is the test game: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/306748

NPW did the Inside run test.
LZ did the Outside run test.

When you call Inside Run and no Inside Run is present, the system chooses Short Pass/Run plays every time. Having an Outside Run play in the Playbook gets called ZERO times.

When you call Outside Run and no Outside Run is present, the system chooses Short Pass/Run plays every time. Having an Inside Run play in the Playbook gets called ZERO times.

Conclusion:

Inside Run and Outside Run are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

I believe this is how it should be. The preference should be:

Inside > Normal > Outside
Outside > Normal > Inside

Originally posted by Rob.

Pass Short will go to pass short and then look for anything that is Pass Medium or long and call them equally.
Pass Medium will go to pass medium and then look for anything that is pass short or pass long and call them equally.
Pass Long will go to pass long and then look for anything that is pass short or pass medium and call them equally.


Yes, this is the concept of inclusion and exclusion at work. Since the distance called didn't exist, nothing was "included". Thus the "excluded" plays became a group. If the next steps of Zone and/or Blitz doesn't whittle down the list to just one play, then the randomness of the blue dots takes effect.


Originally posted by Rob.

Not sure what will happen if you put inside and outside run defenses in the playbook only and then call pass short, medium or long. Will it call the plays equal or favor one or the other?

I'm going to test Outside Runs next using Short, Medium and Long (doubt Long will do anything) to see which Outside Run play gets called. Most of the Man Outside Runs are Short (a couple are Medium) but a good number of the Zone Outside Runs are Medium. (Results tomorrow, maybe late tonight, as I have family travel today.)

It's time to verify or fail the idea that the Distance tag on Outside Runs matters.

I believe every Inside Run is Short (and a Blitz) so there's no way to check Distance on that.

6500 games coached between Rob and Xars and still still have to run tests to figure out the defensive AI. I do appreciate them doing so though.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
6500 games coached between Rob and Xars and still still have to run tests to figure out the defensive AI. I do appreciate them doing so though.

It's f*****g sad, isn't it.

What will be called if you have 100% Outside run and the playbook only consists of Medium Run/Pass, Medium Pass and Long Pass? I am guessing it will call Medium Run/Pass 100%?

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
What will be called if you have 100% Outside run and the playbook only consists of Medium Run/Pass, Medium Pass and Long Pass? I am guessing it will call Medium Run/Pass 100%?

Yes.

The Medium Pass and Long Pass plays aren't able to be chosen because they don't have a Run tag to them. They could only be chosen if the Run/Pass play wasn't in the playbook (and then the other filters would kick in).