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Oofty
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
He started with 80 sprinting 80 quickness his first 2 seasons of vet but then was respecced for more sprinting and less quickness. Definitely more effective with less quickness. Head fake really doesn't fire that much even with both Rtech and RElusiveness where I have them. Remember those are the two attributes that cause it to fire, you really do need above 90 each, and even then it still won't fire that much, as most every CB has 85+ man aware and cov. tech.

Without high sprinting and first step the build wouldn't work. That's why the idea just can't work as a non S*, and even as a S* there still aren't enough points to go around to fully idealize the build. CIS really doesn't fire that much, balance is the attribute that causes it to fire, and its expensive and unfortunately a luxury for most WR's. Even my S* only has 60 balance, and thats considered high for a WR. You'll have a hard time forcing it to fire on a regular basis on S*, a non S* won't even be able to reach that much balance.

If I had to do it over again, he'd have even less quickness, maybe 55, and instead more conditioning, balance and receiving consistency. However I wouldn't really bother building this kind of WR again. I would scrap route elusiveness entirely and ignore head fake as an SA. Get 100 sprinting, more conditioning, and balance and just go First Step, CiS, and Prime Time, or use my S* WR to build a YAC WR with high speed, balance and power running, or elusive running instead of power. Non S* Wr's should just be focused on being fast, good hands, and able to run routes. It's really tough to focus on anything else with the costs of a regular player.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/140040
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/140043

As much as I don't like to admit it, a lot of what Xars says about passing and RE are true. RElusiveness, is simply too expensive with too little return on investment to be worth while, the S* I posted may have been good (thanks to bhall for play-calling), but I honestly think he would have been even better had I ignored RE and Head Fake. However if you're set on doing it, you must get Rtech and Relusiveness above 90 each along with 90+ sprinting. Those three things have to happen, otherwise it's a waste of points in RElusiveness. And even if they do happen I still think it's a waste of points.


Sort of an aside here. What do you know about high RT builds (not RE) with higher Footwork than most people use?

Also, do you think the 80 Sprint/80 Quickness build may have worked out better if Snap React had been higher?
Edited by Oofty on Oct 13, 2015 19:12:21
 
MileHighShoes
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To the second question, no. The player was too slow, and quickness did not provide much benefit.

To the first question, High RT and footwork aren't as effective as you might think. Footwork only really helps a Wr on certain routes where they end up coming back to the QB, elsewhere it won't really help a WR except possibly after the catch. Unless they run lots of comebacks and curls it wouldn't really be worth the investment.
 
Xars
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
To the second question, no. The player was too slow, and quickness did not provide much benefit.



I'm really curious about that.

Here's how I analyzed Juice:

S10: 6.565 First Downs per Drive
S11: 10.73 First Downs per Drive
S12: 16.57 First Downs per Drive
S13: 10.03 First Downs per Drive

Your S13 efficiency is equal to S11. S12 was clearly his best season.

What was the difference in play calling each season?
Did he play different WR slots during that time?

Clearly, S12 was a big improvement over S10, but S13 was pretty comparable to S11.

Are you sure more Sprinting and less Quickness was the defining factor?
 
MileHighShoes
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Remember S10 was his first season with the team, so chemistry was a factor. Also how did you calculate first downs per drive? These are just some basic comparisons in a few WR metrics that I could easily acquire. Again for the most part S10 will be outliers due to chemistry's affect on the WR. S12 would be the season when he was respecced for more speed, and more CIT in exchange for Quickness. Honestly, I wish there were more seasons of data that we could look over. I get the feeling that these 4 seasons of sampling simply aren't enough to really pull anything useful from the data. However I think if more time was given we'd find the WR with more speed and less quickness would average higher numbers in all categories.

Rec Per Target
S10 - 0.47 Rec per Target
S11 - 0.55 Rec per Target
S12 - 0.61 Rec per Target
S13 - 0.54 Rec per Target

Yards Per Target

S10 - 6.51 Yds per Target
S11 - 7.11 Yds per Target
S12 - 9.42 Yds per Target
S13 - 8.44 Yds per Target

TDs Per Target

S10 - 0.05 TDs per Target
S11 - 0.06 TDs per Target
S12 - 0.08 TDs per Target
S13 - 0.13 TDs per Target
 
Xars
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Originally posted by Xars

What was the difference in play calling each season?
Did he play different WR slots during that time?


I calculated what you calculated. What I couldn't calculate was the above.

Play calling and route structures matter.

Before you can say less Quickness helped my player, you have to adjust for plays and routes.

Not saying you're conclusion is wrong, but you need to go through the proof steps.
 
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Why are you talking to yourself?
 
BlackSamurai
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I can't speak for Xars, but sometimes nobody else is worth talking to.
 
Aeir
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That's what geniuses do before they go clinically insane.
 
MileHighShoes
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Originally posted by Xars
I calculated what you calculated. What I couldn't calculate was the above.

Play calling and route structures matter.

Before you can say less Quickness helped my player, you have to adjust for plays and routes.

Not saying you're conclusion is wrong, but you need to go through the proof steps.


I don't really know, and unfortunately I don't have enough attention span to investigate it. Also when quickness went down CIT went up nearly 20 points.
 
Xars
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
I don't really know, and unfortunately I don't have enough attention span to investigate it. Also when quickness went down CIT went up nearly 20 points.


Well.... That may have mattered most!
 
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