Warrior General Games

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
There's a wikitables greasemonkey script that works for GLB forums. Might work for GLB2, too.

using chrome

Unless you know of a chrome extension that would work. Then again I can create a damn shared spreadsheet on G drive, but meh.

Also... just thought about something, I could provide a MASS data dump of each play and its attributes and teams attributes into a mass table in XLS but sure no one wants to load up a 1.4 million record XLS file.

So yeah, just looking at professional, for example, the only thing noticeably different as you go up in play distance would appear to be the "fell incomplete" rate. The ability of the defense to impact the play is basically the same across all the play types (other than screens).

From short to medium passes is a scant ~6% difference in completion %. It's only 8% difference from short to long.

If I've got 3 stabs at a first down, it doesn't make any sense for me to shoot for anything less than a first down with each try. I'm only going to complete roughly half my throws in a competitive game more or less regardless of the distance. So saying I need 66.7% of my throws to have enough success for a single first down (2 out of 3 plays) is asking for failure. Especially when I'll typically need to repeat that success 3-6 times to get into the endzone or within effective FG range. Hell, the encouragement to go really deep on throws is there simply to not only try for a first down, but possibly reduce the number of successes I'll need to have in sequence.

I think the "fell incomplete" ratio shift is probably ok. Maybe make changes to reduce the short throws fell incomplete by half from 10%ish to 5%ish, and increase the long throws by 5% on fell incomplete type plays.

Defenders universally able to defense short to deep throws basically the same is a problem. Maybe backing CBs off the line a bit would help? Or at least forcing defenses to pick their poison on defensive alignment with different plays being more press or soft coverage. Possibly via CB tactics? I wonder if more folks would willingly set their CBs softer to be able to backpedal further for better jumps on deeper throws? This might make shorter throws more effective?

Also, looks like I'm right about drops being higher on shorter passes. 17%/14%/12% on short/med/long. More or less inverse of the "fell incomplete" numbers.

I think if corndog was able to reduce drops on shorter throws, and reduce the fell incompletes on shorter routes, and increase it on longer routes, we'd be much closer to where we should be. You could then look at bumping up hurry impact, which should be nastier against longer routes where the % of hurried plays is higher.

Originally posted by Galithor
If I've got 3 stabs at a first down, it doesn't make any sense for me to shoot for anything less than a first down with each try. I'm only going to complete roughly half my throws in a competitive game more or less regardless of the distance. So saying I need 66.7% of my throws to have enough success for a single first down (2 out of 3 plays) is asking for failure. Especially when I'll typically need to repeat that success 3-6 times to get into the endzone or within effective FG range. Hell, the encouragement to go really deep on throws is there simply to not only try for a first down, but possibly reduce the number of successes I'll need to have in sequence.

This.

And yes, as you go up in Tier, the completion % for going for Long passes increases enough to put them in the playbook - except that hurries are higher on Long pass plays (which makes sense) so you get the "normal" rate less often.

Which goes back to Sean's debate about hurries not effecting the game enough. Long passes at Seasoned and Journeyman have a 21% and 22% hurry rate, respectively. So getting hurries on Long pass attempts helps the D a lot more than getting hurries on Short or Medium attempts.

Again, adjusted for all the above, is it any wonder that most OCs throw Medium passes? They have the best risk/reward for completion% vs. yardage/first downs and have a hurry % similar to Short passes. In time a pure Passing team should be able to add Long Passes and have the OLine to cut down on those hurries unlike Balanced/Run based teams that can seemingly Pass block equal to pure Passing teams. Though I think this is the idea, but I'm not sure it's the current implementation.

Originally posted by Galithor
Galactic, Passing Power more or less accomplishes what you're talking about.

In any event, I don't think the short passing game issues are necessarily a QB focused issue. I'm more inclined to think it's a reception awareness issue when dealing with the smaller amount of "ball in flight" time on a short route. If the QB is on the money with the throw, no big deal, but if they're even slightly off, how often does the receiver not even really have a chance to pass a reception awareness roll on a short pass? The lack of time to adjust to the ball's flight path may make catch rolls massively harder than they otherwise would appear to be.

How is this any different than real life? If you throw a ball 50 MPH at me from 5 feet away I will have less time to adjust to the throw than if you throw the ball 50 MPH at me from 30 feet away.

What needs to happen is the QB should adjust the ball speed relative to how close he is to the target. Don't fire a rocket to his HB standing 5 yards away from him.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
How is this any different than real life? If you throw a ball 50 MPH at me from 5 feet away I will have less time to adjust to the throw than if you throw the ball 50 MPH at me from 30 feet away.

In real life, you're not throwing it that hard from that close because you know it'll reduce my chances to catch it. But that is an issue even on low passing power QBs. It's still tougher for a short reception than a long one in the sim.

Mentioned it earlier, but for some of the results, they're skewed tx to reeivers. Check this big overthrow due to pressure/movement, still caught: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/97344/573864

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
Mentioned it earlier, but for some of the results, they're skewed tx to reeivers. Check this big overthrow due to pressure/movement, still caught: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/97344/573864

According to the description, that's not a hurried throw, and it looks like a perfect pass to me. I don't see the route adjustment by the receiver after the ball is thrown.

Originally posted by Galithor
Also, looks like I'm right about drops being higher on shorter passes. 17%/14%/12% on short/med/long. More or less inverse of the "fell incomplete" numbers.

I think if corndog was able to reduce drops on shorter throws, and reduce the fell incompletes on shorter routes, and increase it on longer routes, we'd be much closer to where we should be. You could then look at bumping up hurry impact, which should be nastier against longer routes where the % of hurried plays is higher.

Agreed. Increasing the accuracy for short throws, increasing the WRs ability to react, etc. might go a long way to making short passes workable. I mean, you would think that the most effective pass against an all out blitz would be a bunch of short routes into single coverage.

Originally posted by Galithor
According to the description, that's not a hurried throw, and it looks like a perfect pass to me. I don't see the route adjustment by the receiver after the ball is thrown.

Understand that it's not a hurried throw, that wasn't my intention with the post. My point from earlier was that passes can be overthrown/inaccurate (that throw is definitely not on target) but the WRs range makes it all gravy so statistically it looks like nothing happened. There could be a hurry, a bad throw, but the WR fixes it all.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
How is this any different than real life? If you throw a ball 50 MPH at me from 5 feet away I will have less time to adjust to the throw than if you throw the ball 50 MPH at me from 30 feet away.

What needs to happen is the QB should adjust the ball speed relative to how close he is to the target. Don't fire a rocket to his HB standing 5 yards away from him.

Except IRL the WR making a short route is timing it with the QB and knows it is coming or ought to be coming.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
Understand that it's not a hurried throw, that wasn't my intention with the post. My point from earlier was that passes can be overthrown/inaccurate (that throw is definitely not on target) but the WRs range makes it all gravy so statistically it looks like nothing happened. There could be a hurry, a bad throw, but the WR fixes it all.

I agree with that in principle even if I don't see it in your linked play.

It's much easier for the WR to fix it on longer passes with more time in flight. It's part of the issue on shorter passes.