Warrior General Games

Why is this incomplete because of nearby defense
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/51932/2848711
And this (watch the SS who is 5yds away when the ball leaves the QBs hands @43 clicks)
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/51932/2848882

And this isn't? (again, watch the SS covering the TE, this time he is right with the receiver at @41.5 clicks when the pass is thrown) @44.5 clicks, the TE cuts inside, 4.5 clicks later the SS has adjusted and is trying to put a leg inside the TEs shorts he's so close. @54 Clicks the SS and the WR have both moved their little arms up together, The SS is just about riding on the TE's back. At 58 Clicks, the ball is caught.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/51932/2848893

How is the game defining what is nearby and what isn't?

How about this one?
Pass is thrown at 45 Clicks, the defender is 3 yds away from the TE. At 54 Clicks the LOLB has closed the gap and the receiver is poised for the catch with his arms out, but the LOLB runs straight past and behind him, making no attempt to play the ball or the man. Incomplete.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/51932/2848909

There are countless instances of this in every game.

Coverage is so screwed up right now. What are we meant to do as builders and DCs to give us a fighting chance against the pass?

The games based on rolls. When you lose a roll within your consistency/awareness nearby defenders can fluster a receiver. Just because you have a defender in the area of the receiver does not mean you win or should win the roll.

Originally posted by bhall43
The games based on rolls. When you lose a roll within your consistency/awareness nearby defenders can fluster a receiver. Just because you have a defender in the area of the receiver does not mean you win or should win the roll.

It's also not the defender who makes that roll.

Don't get me wrong there are certainly some aspects of coverage that can be done better but the why is this nearby and this isn't argument I don't think is a good argument.

Originally posted by bhall43
Don't get me wrong there are certainly some aspects of coverage that can be done better but the why is this nearby and this isn't argument I don't think is a good argument.

Fair enough, I understand what you're saying. So what's the algorithm/sequence/structure that is determining how the rolls get calculated? Anyone know?

ever hear the saying "He heard footsteps"? Its kinda like that. Basically there a roll to see if the defender makes your wr flinch and miss the catch

Originally posted by Makntak
Fair enough, so whats the algorithm/sequence/structure that is determining how the rolls get calculated? Anyone know?

My educated guess on what happens on a pass:

1. The QB rolls the dice on a read and decides to throw the ball.
2. The QB rolls Pass Technique to create a modifier to the WR's catching rolls.
2a. If there is a nearby pass rusher hurrying the QB, that modifies the roll for receiving difficulty.
2b. If the QB is running, that also modifies the roll.
3. The QB makes a Pass Accuracy roll. The better this role, the close it will be to where the WR is supposed to go on their route.
4. Nearby defenders get to make a Pass Rush Deflection roll to knock the ball away before it gets past them.
5. The WR runs to where they think they can catch the ball. This usually screws up the DB's in coverage.
6. If the DB somehow gets lucky enough to still be near the WR, they get to make a Deflection roll. They will probably fail.
7. If the DB is near the WR, this forces the WR to first make a Catch in Traffic roll. Failing that is what leads to the "drops due to nearby defense" in the PbP.
8. If the WR passes or doesn't have to make a Catch in Traffic roll, they make a Receiving Hands roll modified by the previous QB Pass Technique Roll.

I'm gonna guess the rolls are a bit more complicated than that and the defender has a bit more play involved as well than indicated.

Originally posted by Xavori
It's also not the defender who makes that roll.

In the roll of defender is near by? Sure they do.

Originally posted by bhall43
In the roll of defender is near by? Sure they do.

No. If a defender is nearby, the WR makes a Catch in Traffic roll followed by a Receiving Hands roll. The defender's only roll is a chance at a deflection that occurs before the WR is given a chance to catch the ball.

It's why hook routes are such a pain. It eliminates the defender's roll (not that they have much chance) because they're no longer in the path of the ball, and it likely removes one of the two rolls the WR would have to make.

Originally posted by Xavori
No. If a defender is nearby, the WR makes a Catch in Traffic roll followed by a Receiving Hands roll. The defender's only roll is a chance at a deflection that occurs before the WR is given a chance to catch the ball.

It's why hook routes are such a pain. It eliminates the defender's roll (not that they have much chance) because they're no longer in the path of the ball, and it likely removes one of the two rolls the WR would have to make.

I think you're downplaying receiving consistency's role here. I think the receiver feels pressure based on how close opposing defenders are to them when they make the catch and they combat the effect this pressure has on their catch roll with their receiving consistency stat. But that's just my belief about the difference between having the ball batted away and being unable to secure it due to nearby defense. Of course catch in traffic still plays a role here, but I think consistency plays a big role in these types of catches.

I honestly think all the consistency skills do one thing: raise the floor on other associated dice rolls.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
I think you're downplaying receiving consistency's role here. I think the receiver feels pressure based on how close opposing defenders are to them when they make the catch and they combat the effect this pressure has on their catch roll with their receiving consistency stat. But that's just my belief about the difference between having the ball batted away and being unable to secure it due to nearby defense. Of course catch in traffic still plays a role here, but I think consistency plays a big role in these types of catches.

i think you switched catch in traffic and consistency....

Originally posted by Galithor
I honestly think all the consistency skills do one thing: raise the floor on other associated dice rolls.

So you think this, but you don't know how power and technique affect the break block roll.

amazing.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
i think you switched catch in traffic and consistency....

No I didn't. I was very specific about what I said. We've already discussed catch in traffic above, it seemed a little silly to repeat that and then add on my commentary about consistency. I never said anything about the actual physical confrontation for the ball, I was specifically talking about the amount of pressure felt by the receiver during the catch. I believe that Bort considers pressure situations as more than just 3rd down and late game.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
I believe that Bort considers pressure situations as more than just 3rd down and late game.

Oh interesting....

I don't.

Theres already a modifier for the catching roll... having two would be so lol...

edit: Then again it would make sense as to why receiving is so OP...